Jay Ruane  0:00  

Hi, folks. You’re listening to the Law Firm Blueprint. If you’re listening to us on a podcast, please give us a five-star review. Thank you so much. Hello, hello, and welcome to this edition of the Law Firm Blueprint. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane. With me, as always, is Seth Price down there in his home office. Is it as cold as it is for you? I got out today,my shoulder, it’s still white.

 

Seth Price  0:28  

It’s not great here. I was in Puerto Rico for the John Fisher Mastermind, and is it was glorious there. 

 

Jay Ruane  0:36  

Yeah, you know, it’s funny. I’m looking at my calendar. I’m like, when’s my next trip to some place other than freezing, and it’s not till April, April in Aruba. And I’m like, Oh, my Lord, I don’t know if I could wait that long. 

 

Seth Price  0:49  

You’re not going to be there the first you know, end of March, beginning of April, right? 

 

Jay Ruane  0:52  

No, on the second week of April.

 

Seth Price  0:54  

Well, you’ll have to say hi to Olga at Delphi water sports with all of our other friends. We have our smoothie lady, we have our playa bowl guy. So hopefully.

 

Jay Ruane  1:04  

 my kids are into those playa bowl things. So I’ll have to get

 

Seth Price  1:08  

 more of those on the boardwalk. They just renovated it. It’s, it’s an institution where there’s breakfast or lunch. You can’t, you can’t beat it. 

 

Jay Ruane  1:15  

Okay, good to know. Good to folks. If you’re traveling, get your travel agents set. You should actually set. That would actually be a new thing that you can do. You can become a lawyer conference influencer, where you take people around the local area, where they hold these conferences, and say, if you’re coming to you know this one, make sure you hit up these places.

 

Seth Price  1:36  

I get the text in the call, saying, Where do I do this? And like, it’s stuff like Aruba, just my happy place. The family loves it. And over the years, we’ve collected people there that have become part of our circle. 

 

Jay Ruane  1:47  

Yeah, I got, I have, I have a bartender in Turks and Caicos that I love to see. I see Pauline. She makes a nice Rum Punch, and we have some laughs. It’s funny. We were just talking before we came on the air about she grew up in the Bronx and then moved back home. She, like her teenage years, but she’s been there for now, for, you know, for 20 more and and we often joke about places in the Bronx that we both sort of frequented because we’re around the same age. And she’s always like, Oh, you’re crazy, because you’re like, the only guy who comes down here who wants to talk about the Bronx.

 

Seth Price  2:20  

well, look, I will set this up for you. Olga will send Speedy Gonzalez, her little speed boat to pick you up wherever you’re staying, and bring you back to their hut in front of the Hyatt.

 

Jay Ruane  2:30  

Oh i’ve never donethat.

 

Seth Price  2:31  

Yeah, they do. They have, like, a great sunset sale we’ve done almost every time we’ve been down there. That just is a great way to end it right there. 

 

Jay Ruane  2:40  

See, folks, this is what happens if you live in like the Northeast or the Boston, DC corridor. It’s the middle of February. It is freezing. There’s so much snow on the ground, and all we’re talking about is the things that warm our hearts, and that’s interpersonal relationships, right? That’s one of the things that makes a difference in this business, but also getting away from the winter. So if you live in one of these places where it’s warming around, God bless you. I’m a little jealous right about now. Won’t be jealous in August, when you it’s 120 degrees and you guys are stepping outside and getting hit in the face with with that sort of heat, but Seth. So tell me about your week. What’s been going on? I had a rough week last week, but this week, I’m back at it. 

 

Seth Price  3:20  

That’s good. The mastermind was awesome. Was down there. Spent time with McCready,  Gary Christmas, John Fisher. It was just, it was a wonderful group, and many more. Got to spend some time with the Finch people and see their pre lit product, which is fascinating. You know the idea they’re the second to market in this space where, you know, they basically take a case from intake through through demand, and it just fascinating to see, and I think that it intersects with our talk last week about private equity. I’m getting a lot of calls. How do you literally getting calls? I want to come have dinner with you. Pick your brain. I don’t know if you like that term or not, but people are trying to figure out, how do they prepare for a private equity world? And what I think that groups like Finch are showing is that if you layer technology, you can bring the cost down on things beyond what we normally think they are. We talk about hiring and firing the mistakes we make. Imagine the desire to sort of say, Hey, you guys deal with all the headaches, bring the best technology. You know, I’m still battling certain employees, trying to get them to embrace AI and beyond. So fascinating to see that you’re starting to see the discussions about, what is the future of case management? What you know, will AI programs and case management intersect, or will the AI programs gobble it up, where they become the place of record for your for your files. So instead of integrating, it will be the it will be the management.

 

Jay Ruane  5:00  

Yeah, you know, I was on LinkedIn today just sort of scrolling around, and I noticed some of the one of the ones that I follow, was talking about Baker McKenzie’s laying off 700 staffers. Baker McKenzie’s huge firm, but 700 people at staff level, paralegal staff level, and they’re saying it’s as a result of the technology use, the increased use of AI and that type of thing. I’m sure it’s people that were bait stamping stuff and and doing deposition digests and the like, but that’s that’s a lot of people to be let go, as I think it might be, you know, an indicator of where things are going, because I’m sure they are getting pressure from their corporate clients to utilize AI better, and I’m sure that will translate to us. I mean, I don’t know about you, but I’m talking to my lawyers in my office, and clients are saying, Well, did you run this police report through AI to the lawyers? And they’re saying, hey, you know that’s why you hired me, and 

 

Seth Price  6:00  

those words came, I had an employment lawyer, and we now needed, like, a handbook that accomplished things in 12 different states, or some nonsense, and you know, they were going to hire counsel. And, like, before you hire counsel, can you at least run this through AI and let me know on some sort of private system? Does this comply with X states? To see, is there anything being like start there, at least preliminarily, yes, it is. It’s, it’s a thing. 

 

Jay Ruane  6:27  

But, you know, maybe, I don’t know, maybe we’re the outliers here Seth, because we’ve been talking about AI since November of 23 and we’re now, you know, two and a half years into it, we’re using it regularly, daily. I just spent the whole morning today using it for multiple, multiple things. This week alone, I published a new book on Amazon. It’s a workbook to write alongside my latest book. And I was like, I don’t have time to write this, but I know people want to have a workbook to go along with it, because it’ll help them. And so I just said, I uploaded the book, and I said, make a workbook to go along with this, and then I sent it out to a graphic designer, and in 72 hours, I had a buy an

 

Seth Price  7:14  

AI prop for that piece. 

 

Jay Ruane  7:16  

Well, that’s exactly what it is. So we’re we are the outliers. We’re talking about it here on the show. In our community, it’s astounding to me how many people in the greater legal community are simply not at all. And 

 

Seth Price  7:31  

I think to a certain extent, it’s figuring out where it’s useful and where it’s where it’s interesting, and where it makes money. And we talked about that a lot, right? There’s stuff that’s really positive. Look, I had a really tough moment at our Price Benowitz Summit a couple weeks ago when a paralegal, in front of the entire in the non lawyer staff, non manager, non lawyer staff room, made some sort of proclamation she doesn’t trust ChatGBT or AI, and I’m never going to use it. And you know, I was talking to McCready one of his core values is adoption of technology at his firm. And I’m sitting there very torn. The person’s making money, she’s billing hours, and she going anywhere anytime soon? No, but that’s clearly not somebody a pillar you want to be building on. Clients aren’t going to stand for it at some point, or it’s going to be non competitive. You know, our we have one partner does transaction work, old buddy of mine. He’s, you know, basically his attitude is no more charge for paralegal times. I can get this all done with AI. 

 

Jay Ruane  8:33  

Paralegal time is a moneymaker for some firms.

 

Seth Price  8:35  

I understand. I said, Hey, wait a second, Joe, talk this through. But that, but I think that’s also what the big firms are struggling with, which is, you know, think about the entire industry, and it’s a shame, because the people needed those jobs. But if, when we went to law school, if somebody couldn’t get a job, the job that was open to them was big firm doc review. And frankly, I had a theory, hope this doesn’t offend anybody 

 

Jay Ruane  9:02  

I did that one summer.

 

Seth Price  9:03  

Yeah, that if you go more than 15 months doing it, you’re no longer employable. It sucks your soul, or, you know, the gumption to get out. I don’t know which comes first, but that entire industry where you’re flagging stuff, that’s what AI is amazing. Like I would trust AI over the third tier law student who can’t get a job and is stuck doing that, you know, because they want to be in the legal industry. 

 

Jay Ruane  9:30  

Yeah. Well, I think those, I mean, you know, we’re showing our age, right? But, you know, you get out of law school in the 90s, there were a lot of people who gravitated to those you missed the you know, you fail a bar exam once. you take one of those jobs, then you don’t sit for the next bar exam. The next thing you know, you’re seven years doing doc review, right. Law related, you wearing a tie 

 

Seth Price  9:53  

Look, every once in a while, I got lucky that you met somebody in the break room that gave you a shot to be an associate. You know, do I know one person that happened to. you know, if you’re a firm, that that was integrated. It literally reminds me a little bit of the the book by Malcolm Gladwell. was it outliers? where he talked about why did like, the immigrants on the Lower East Side were much more successful than the immigrants on the West Coast. The images on the West Coast, went to the you know, pick grapes, and they never saw anybody with wealth. The people on the lower side were selling rags. But it was in the same area as the people who were Wall Street financiers, and there was opportunity. So if you’re in a place where that Docker view was in a separate building, yeah, you were done, or a separate floor that you never saw anybody. But if you’re integrated into a firm, onto a team, then you got to see people, once they fell in love with you and loved you, yeah, they might get you a chance to be a junior associate and work your way up.

 

Jay Ruane  10:50  

For sure, when I came out of law school, I had no job prospects. It’s, you know, I tell my story all the time, but 

 

Seth Price  10:57  

you’re still not particularly employable. 

 

Jay Ruane  10:59  

God, no, I’d be such a horrible employee. I mean, it’s funny, I sat for the Foreign Service exam. At one point, I thought, oh, I can go application, you know, I did it twice. And now that I know personality testing, and I’m a little more, you know, I’ve been a little self introspective. I’m like, God, I would have been horrible. 

 

Seth Price  11:20  

Did you make it to the group interview? 

 

Jay Ruane  11:23  

No, I didn’t even make it there 

 

Seth Price  11:26  

interesting. And those, you know, each of those things, I almost feel like I need to, you know, I go to reunion for the firm I was a baby lawyer at. I feel like I owe some people an apology, because I was such a not great associate, I wanted to be the client so badly that, you know, and what they were doing was fascinating. You know, these guys started businesses doing roll ups, all sorts of cool stuff. 

 

Jay Ruane  11:50  

So let me ask you, okay, this is something that we didn’t talk about, but let’s, let’s talk about it, because I think it matters as a law firm owner, right. How do you create in your law firm, the environment, the service level, the attention that you yourself want as the client? Because I think that’s one of the things that a lot of lawyers don’t focus on, because they’re like, “Well, I’m going to do exceptional work,” but the client experience, I think, is important. It needs to be intentional. And have you taken from your life experience,  the ability to make changes in your firm, whether it was BluShark or Price Benowitz or whatever, because you lived an experience and said, yes, that I want that. I want that feeling, I want that experience, I want that to translate to our clients. 

 

Seth Price  12:45  

Yeah, well, so I think intake is probably the easiest, immediate differentiator, right? I did it myself. It was me and a cell phone. I sat there and answered the calls. It’s now 30 people strong. We now are segmented by practice area where there’s specialists in different areas, but instant gratification first, with the empowerment to do things that’s like you and I get very impatient, very quickly. somebody is empowered to do as much as they can and escalate where needed. That’s all you can ask for in life, right? Immediate gratification with the understanding that if the person can’t. just like AI. We’ve seen this with a voice. Ai, voice is great. Can answer a lot of questions. But if your question has been is between the cracks, it’s as long as I have a zero that can get me off to the person I need to be with, great. So I think intake has been a great differentiator. Part of it comes down to hiring and hiring people that, especially the lawyer level, that is not nothing. Look, I just spent personally much of the morning on LinkedIn conversing with people. And there was a hire that was, you know, our avatar, that would have been a great hire for something. I spoke to her first I heard in her voice that she didn’t really want that type of law. And then she said it. And you know what somebody says you got to believe it. Like, yeah, you know, she’s like, you know, I get there’s opening to the US church. I’m like, like, with love. You got to go there. This is perfect for you at this stage of life. Coming to me if you don’t want to, I don’t want somebody who doesn’t. like we talk a lot about the risk factors as the employer is, will somebody be with you? And if somebody doesn’t love what they’re doing, there’s a pretty good chance that there’s an 18 month over, under on their existence on a good day. 

 

Jay Ruane  14:23  

Hey. I mean, I had one that just lasted less than five months. And I mean, and I think, you know, going forward,you know, back in 1999 1995 that type of thing, you might have people who are willing to just grin, bare it and say, This is the lot that I’ve chosen, but I don’t think current generations that are looking for.

 

Seth Price  14:50  

I will agree with you. Current generation go a step further, which is any generation, even if it did fit it wasn’t a great user experience. 

 

Jay Ruane  14:57  

Oh, absolutely 

 

Seth Price  14:58  

so to me that is, I always tell people, especially our lawyers, it’s a self selecting group. Once somebody’s at a certain level of legal competence, it’s, do they have that passion, you know? And are they in a position to be able to, you know, if they have the legal excellence as a given, then do they want to be there? If they don’t want to be there, life’s too short. There’s a lot of ways to make a bucket life. 

 

Jay Ruane  15:21  

Yeah, for sure. Now let me ask you this talking about hiring something that we’ve done recently, and it was a promotion. It wasn’t a direct hire, but it was a position that I thought about recently, and we were lucky enough to have somebody who was attracted to that role had already worked in our system and raised their hand when we put it out there. We’ve actually converted one of our pod leaders now to a technologist role who knows intimately how we use technology in the firm, and is starting to focus on AI developing, you know, web apps and the like, things that we can do. Just spun up two web apps this weekend because he thought of something and said, Hey, let me try this out. And wow, it’s amazing what he was able to put together. You know, your firm, 

 

Seth Price  16:07  

you’re adding infrastructure, and it’s aI evangelist is an awesome position. We’ve had this for a while, both organizations. It’s not a straight line, but I saw it. Again, I’ll go back to the Price Benowitz Summit. You know, there were workers comp attorneys who were like, look, we have to text people about their doctor’s appointments as one offs. It’s got to become, you know, it needs to be automated. And it, like most things, when you’re dealing with existing softwares, it takes a little bit of finesse to be able to figure out, how do you do this? We’re now switching to zoom, and how’s it gonna work with all these things. But yes, I love it. I thought you were going somewhere you didn’t go, which was John Fisher in a post. Post the mastermind about promoting a paralegal into an OPS role

 

Jay Ruane  16:57  

It actually caused some debate, because, you know, Fisher posts it. Craig Goldenfarb responds and says, “don’t do this.” Then Kate knock Hazel gets up there and says, Actually, we’ve seen some great success. So it’s really sort of, your mileage may vary. I’ll let you know. 

 

Seth Price  17:10  

Or it depends. 

 

Jay Ruane  17:12  

It depends. I’m gonna go with. Your mileage may vary. 

 

Seth Price  17:15  

I’m putting a thumb on the Kate knock Hazel side I get. If you’re going for a true COO or a CFO. You got to go outside the organization. That’s what Craig, I believe, is referring to in his world. But you got to fake it till you make it. John has like a seven, eight person operation, you know it’s he’s not going to afford enough of a step up in my just generally not speaking to his, I don’t know his finances. But my point is that if you can get somebody who or just your technologist, you could have hired outside tech, but they already know your stuff, right? And again, if it’s not a situation where they sucked at their job and you’re trying to hide them somewhere else, that’s the mistake we’ve all made many times, right? Even the person fails at a job. This will hopefully be a headline, you know, like, I would love to get the number. Is it nine out of 10 that fail when we when a failed person goes somewhere else, we do it, or we continue to do it. But it sucks because it’s so unlikely. But here it’s like, no, somebody’s doing well, the harder part is giving up the great paralegal. 

 

Jay Ruane  18:18  

Yeah, 

 

Seth Price  18:20  

you know, but if somebody has those skills again, I’m assuming they’ve interviewed for them. And you know that that’s how I mean, look, I screwed around when I started the firm with outside administrators, for lack of a better word, and it wasn’t until I promoted from within, once failed, and then once successfully, that we ate, we got traction and got off the ground. So, you know, again, highest level ones, yeah, you need to make sure somebody really has the skill set you’re not promoting for the sake of it. But when it comes to the level that sort of, a lot of our listeners at the, you know, sort of one to five lawyer firm hiring from within can be a huge. you trust them. That position has so much so if the rule of three is in place, the first two people aren’t going to work. If you can cut down that curve, because, you know, you trust the person?

 

Jay Ruane  19:11  

Yeah, I mean, it’s huge. I mean, I’m very blessed in that the C-suite I have in my office, my firm administrator. my firm administrator, dropped out of college to work for me when she was 19 years old. She was like, I don’t really want to do this. I like being a paralegal. And then she left, and then she came back part time, and then she left again because she was having children, and her husband was in the Green Beret, and he was deployed, and I get and we were fully supportive of it. And then she calls me up and says, hey, guess what? He’s retired. He got a disability. We’re moving back to Connecticut so my parents can be around the kids. What have you got for me? I was like, I got the perfect job for you. And she has blossomed in this role, and everybody knows that she knows what you’re doing, because she’s filled all of those seats over 25. And so it’s really I lucked out in both of my 

 

Seth Price  20:04  

that goes to the latter, which is, I think that hiring from within, where they understand that they’ve sat in multiple seats, that can be extremely powerful. 

 

Jay Ruane  20:12  

Yeah, I’m at a point now where I’m like, you know, Emily, you need to be focusing on higher level stuff rather than posting the job ads anymore. Hire yourself an executive assistant, and I think we just found somebody for her. So I’m really excited about how that role has grown for her over the years, and how it’s such an integral part. I mean, it’s a six figure salary, you know, it’s not cheap, but she’s earning every penny. And like, I think for me, I talked about on the show last week, had a bit of a rough week with with an attorney who basically quit with zero notice, like and just went radio silent. I stressed about it for about two hours, and my management team was like, “Yeah, we got this. You’re good. We’ll take care of it.” And I and so I was able to.

 

Seth Price  20:56  

Loook it’s easier with scale, because that’s 1/20 of your operation, not 1/3 that you had on certain early days. The biggest call that used to scare me was the bookkeeper. When we lost bookkeepers in early days. We’ve had so many 13 years now, and actually looking to layer a CFO into the firm, but when the old bookkeeper left, that was the scariest moment at the firm. 

 

Jay Ruane  21:19  

Yeah, I’m actually, I’m outsourcing my bookkeeping right now to a local company. I have two, you know, collections people that work with us to keep the money coming in and following up with payments and that type of thing. But I’m really at a point where I’m paying, you know, 90 grand a year to this outsource agency for my bookkeeping. And I think I could probably find somebody in house, but then do I want the headache of bringing that person? 

 

Seth Price  21:42  

It’s not that, if it’s if it ain’t broken. We tried the Indian group you taught you used 

 

Jay Ruane  21:47  

It did not work for me. 

 

Seth Price  21:48  

We were, we failed much faster than you. You know, it was, it was rough. And so, you know, piece by piece, it is, it has come together. But I think at this point now, we’re looking at, how do we get to that next level? We’ve never really found a great fractional CFO solution. I’ve succeeded a lot of things. One of the areas we’ve really struggled with is that is, how do we and so now we’re like, you know what? We’re going to bite the bullet big enough we could bite the bullet and bring somebody real in. 

 

Jay Ruane  22:17  

I think one of the problems with law CFOs is that many CFOs come from either, you know,  a B2C, selling widgets. And so if they don’t have the variabilities that we have in a legal industry, and they just don’t understand the you know, 

 

Seth Price  22:36  

I would almost take that, though, what I’m looking at is somebody outside the legal sector, you know, a la Johnson, who’d come in, who’s just wicked smart and is able to help us, you know, forecast and budget and do all the things that right now are a luxury that should be a necessity. 

 

Jay Ruane  22:56  

Yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. I mean, you know, looking down the line, I got to figure out who my next hires are. Like, you know, we’re growing. I mean, one of the best things I did in the last couple of years is I added a full time videographer, and we are just crushing it online with our videos that we’re pumping out. And we’re getting tons of feedback. I mean, we had millions, we had like, 19 million views of the videos that we put out last year, and it’s translating into clients, because they’re mentioning YouTube, they’re mentioning videos when they call in, which is fantastic. We’re pushing them on social and that type of thing. But, I don’t know what my next hire should be. To move the needle more, maybe it is the CFO. I mean, that’s a question that maybe we should get some people in to talk about, is, at what point do you know who your next hire is going to be? 

 

Seth Price  23:56  

And a lot of COO-CFOs are thrown around, and there are different levels. I mean, again, we go back to the masterminds. From day one, it’s, there’s a, you know, an admin to an office manager, to a law firm administrator to a director of operations to a COO. It’s a continuum. I think that some of this, and the question I’m starting to get, which maybe land the plane and we could, we could pick this up next time, is, you know, people are calling me and saying, Hey, you guys talked about private equity last time. What do I need to do to get my firm in shape for that? And that some of these hires will end up creating something that the MSO and the managed service organization, if you think about it, that’s what private equity is really good at. It’s creating systems with efficiencies using technology, and it’s probably what law firms are generally worst at. You know, we, you know, you sit there as the practitioner. You’re a practitioner first, and you have to then figure everything out. And you get it as well or better than anybody in the space. But it’s still not nothing. And so, you know, when I get these questions, things, some of it is, you know. And the downside is it’s going to affect your profit, your EBITDA, which the barometer of how you would sell at the same time it’s the right way to run it. And what’s frustrating is, I don’t see the fractional working that well in the industry, in general, means better than 

 

Jay Ruane  25:16  

even have somebody all in 

 

Seth Price  25:18  

right? But that’s expensive, 

 

Jay Ruane  25:20  

yeah, yeah, it’s very expensive. And it’s, and it’s, you know, and it’s not revenue generated. I mean, you could get somebody who’s doing that and say to them, Hey, I want to generate a million dollars a year in profit, right? Or $2 million a year in profit based on my numbers, and get me there. But then they may make moves that you would never do, you know getting rid of that paralegal who’s overpaid but has tons of relationships in the local legal community that get things done that they don’t see, right? And so, you know, I have a paralegal that makes $90,000 a year, and you know, the caseload that she works on is probably a half a million dollars. Statistically, she is not a profitable employee, but she’s also the one when we have an issue at a courthouse, she can get on the phone and call who she knows on the inside, and now it’s no longer an issue. And you don’t see that if you’re just looking at dollars and cents. So that’s one of the things that we need you know this at the end of the day, it’s still an interpersonal business. To some extent. It’s not, you know, it’s not strictly numbers, and it’s difficult to make those decisions or to delegate those decisions being made by other people, because it could have a deleterious effect without, and not intentionally, and not, you know, not nefariously, just they don’t necessarily know how things work in your small orbit. And now, if you’re Morgan and Morgan, and you’re trying to be, you know, across the country, yeah, you got to do it a different way. But if you’re trying to be the powerhouse PI firm in your community, or the, you know, the local workers’ comp firm or the local criminal defense firm, you need people with relationships, I think more than you need, more than you necessarily need, the hard to fast numbers. I don’t know. That’s my opinion, and I’m sticking to it. Got anything else?

 

Seth Price  27:17  

 I think I’m good. 

 

Jay Ruane  27:18  

I’m just thinking about that, that bar in Aruba that’s going to pick me up and bring me for a cocktail. I like to say 

 

Seth Price  27:24  

She’s the water sports person, but you will, I’m sure, she’d find you a cocktail as well. Moon buzz on the beach. Where do you stay? At the Marriott? 

 

Seth Price  27:32  

We’re staying in a Marriott, yeah, with,

 

Seth Price  27:35  

With the lazy river and all that stuff?

 

Jay Ruane  27:37  

No, we’re at the Stellaris Casino. 

 

Seth Price  27:39  

It’s the big hotel, so I’ll have Olga send you the boat. Second, a couple doors down from the Marriott, probably three doors down, walking towards the Hyatt, towards downtown, is Moon buzz. They have a Latin Grammy-winning singer three nights a week. He starts around 7pm we go. We watch sunset, feet in the sand. Their house special is like a rotating kebab they bring out to the table. It is awesome. It is reasonable, and it is two for one drinks before 630.

 

Jay Ruane  28:09  

I love the sound of that. I love the sound of that. So folks, that’s where I’m going to be mid-April. If you want to join me in Aruba, gladly, if you’re a member of our community here, I would gladly buy you a cocktail, especially if they’re two for one. So folks, that’s going to do it for us this week here on the law firm blueprint. Of course, you can catch us anywhere you go on the go by subscribing to the law firm blueprint podcast. I saw our numbers. We’re like, 40,000 downloads recently. Yeah, I logged into Apple podcast stats and saw that we had a whole bunch. So if you are our listener, thank you so much. Be sure to give us a five-star review. Be sure to check us out live every week, live on LinkedIn, 3 pm Eastern, 12 pm Pacific, and live in our Facebook group, the law firm blueprint. I am Jay Ruane. He is Seth Price, and we are done for this week. Thank you, guys so much. We’ll see you next week. Bye for now. You

 

Jay Ruane  29:00  

Thank you. Thank you.