S2 E30: Back from Max Law Con!

Join Seth and Jay as they discuss their takeaways from Max Law Con and what the future will bring.

What's In This Episode?

  • Impressions and highlights from Max Law Con 2021.
  • Outsourcing your agency needs.
  • The importance of establishing a vision.
  • The benefits of takeaway-driven vs. story-driven speakers.
  • How to vet online forums for the best information.
  • Understanding different firms have different needs for social media.
  • Adapting the expertise of others to your individual practice.
  • How to use organic social to gauge your firm's digital needs.

Transcript

Jay Ruane

Hello, and welcome to another edition of Maximum Growth Life. I'm one of your hosts, Jay Ruane, CEO of FirmFlex, as well as managing partner of Ruane Attorneys, a criminal defense and civil rights firm in Connecticut. With me, as always, my good friend, my amigo, and I just got to spend a good solid four days with him, so I've got a huge smile on my face. That man over there, Seth J. Price. Seth, how you doing this week?

Seth Price

Doing well, doing well. Max Law was quite a trip, and I really enjoyed it.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, you know, it was great, and one of the great things about it is I got to see all the people from BluShark, you had a lot of people. You know, for people in our audience who don't know what BluShark is, BluShark is Seth's passion play. It's SEO for lawyers and service professionals, but really, for lawyers, is where BluShark got its start because it came out of your firm, right?

Seth Price

Correct.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, so...

Seth Price

It was essentially, it helps digital.

Jay Ruane

So, you had Nalini there, but you had some other members of your team there because you have a lot of clients in the community, and it was really cool getting to talk with your BluShark people, and really getting to engage with them. I know, my people at FirmFlex, really spent a lot of time with the BluShark people, and it was a lot of fun for all of them to get together. All those millennial, Gen Z people doing what they do.

Seth Price

You know, with a couple of dozen clients in the room, we took the extra time to bring some of the account reps, for lack of a better term, who are sort of like, a part of the sausage baking, so that they could do check-in. It's a lot cheaper to visit everybody in St. Louis than it is to fly around to people's offices. So, got a lot of quality one-on-one time with clients around the country and, you know, talk to a lot of people who are sort of, you know, considering whether to dip their foot into digital and, I had some really nice conversations there as well.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, you know, it's funny after all of this, after talking my, you know, one of my marketing directors is also part of FirmFlex, and she was chatting up with some of your people, and she reached out to me and said, you know, we should really consider BluShark. So, that's something that I need to have a conversation. We won't do it here live.

Seth Price

To be fair, you get the best of BluShark without paying for it, but I have a feeling, it's something that, business truisms, I have a lot of business truisms, right? One is the book I have not written, which is people suck, no good deed goes unpunished, and you can't teach common sense, with the afterward that money solves almost any problem. But if I were to have a second afterward, it would have to do with the favor economy. And it works greatly, but whenever I have a contractor come to my house, "Oh, no, no, I'll do that as a favor," I'm like, no, I need to pay for it. When you don't pay for it, there's not an actual deliverable. Might happen, might not, but much of life is, is there someone that you yell at if that doesn't work. And that's to me, part of the reason. So, it's a funny, funny conversation, because you and I spend countless hours talking about how you construct your stuff. My team has worked with you on issues that have come up on your site, but it's not the sort of normal client, you know, vendor relationship, so to speak, and, you know, it is funny how your staff is like, you know what, we need more of that, and not just the, you know, Jay talking with Seth and getting our stuff straight.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, no, it's definitely interesting. You know, we've been suffering from this GNB problem that has come up over the last like six weeks, our leads were down and that type of thing, and we got verified by GNB, we thought everything was going and then they combine profiles and that type of thing. And you know what I did, when I sort of, I did what I should have done at the beginning, I took a few steps back, and I was like, you know what, I never updated that NAP in Moz, so that that went out across all Accion and all of those listings. And so, that's why the GNB wasn't moving my office from one to another, because all of the other signs online, despite me saying, hey, move it, all of the other signs online was like no, our office was still in Wednesfield, and that...

Seth Price

Well, BluShark, just to give you an idea, we moved beyond Moz, we have a whole system that does this by hand and automated, but the idea being that when we move something, that's just to give it, it's instinctual, and it's done. You know, so it's fascinating to see what happens. You know, there are certain things you can do by yourself, and there's certain pitfalls when you do it yourself.

Jay Ruane

And I'm a perfect example of that, you know, it took me six weeks to the... oh, wait, I forgot to do that part of it. I started with step two instead of step one, and I was so excited, you know, running, running, running with these new offices, that I think now we're getting it all straightened out, things are already better. And, you know, we should be good by the end of this week. So, you know it, but it's one of those things that, you know, sometimes you do need a professional to help, you know, I just put in four new toilets in my house, I had a plumber who can put them in. I can, I can set a toilet, but I had a pro do it because I don't want, you know, I don't want to start flushing into the kitchen. You know, it wasn't...

Seth Price

Absolutely, I'll give you an example. The greatest highlight to me, pivoting away slightly, from Max Law Con, was walking down the halls and finding all these people that listen to us on a week-to-week basis. You know, you and I sit here in a vacuum, and when we may get a comment here or there, I did not realize how many people were regular listeners, quoting back shows to us. It was, it was quite humbling. One person, as they were getting out of their SUV from the airport, and passed me by the entrance, like "I'm listening to you as I walk," and I was like, that's pretty cool.

Jay Ruane

That is pretty cool. That is pretty cool. You know, is, we are blessed. There are a lot of listeners in that community. I want to talk a little bit about the day that not many people got to see because it was the very first day, the Monday, and you and I were blessed to be able to lead Masterminds for The Guild, and for those who are listeners who are not, who are not, who are either new listeners or listening to this months from now, and you're just learning about us, the Maximum Lawyer Guild is a separate sort of members-only association of lawyers that has a lot more than what's going on in the big Maximum Lawyer group or in the Maximum Growth Live group, that type of thing. And that's something I want to talk about, but the Maximum Lawyer Guild put together, I guess, what, like 80, 60, 80 people, so five groups of 12. So, what's that? I can't do the math, but that's 70, 60. See I can divide by a third. Yeah, and that's why I went to law school, I can divide by a third, that's about it. But yeah, so 60 people there, really working on some of their things. Now, in my group, we had a lot of people talking about vision, and that was awesome, because it really, you know, we had some people who are trying to do too much, because they come from general practice areas, and they got over the, they got over the 'I have to be everything to everyone,' which I think helped them. We had some transformative sessions. So, let's talk a little bit about your people because I didn't, you know, obviously, it's, you're sworn to secrecy, and I'm not going to reveal any confidences, but, you know, my people really worked on vision and where they want to be, what was yours like?

Seth Price

Well, it was interesting, because it was humbling to see sort of like where you've come from, in the sense that these are people with the issues that you had, you know, a decade ago, but one of the things that was really gratifying, was, and it's not normal in a Mastermind, we had about a third of the group that had actionable items that were going to solve the problem that came with. They said, I have a problem, and there was a finite issue. I'll give you a clear example. So there was somebody who had an employee, and there was a question about retention, and an okay salary with a discretionary bonus that they were planning on paying out, and the sort of, you know, group came back with, hey, turn that into a, not discretionary, but a bonus structure, that gives that person a number they know they're gonna get when they hit certain metrics. And secondly, you know, it was a question of like, there was a piece of that person's job they didn't love, eliminate that, take that and reassign it. If it's a nominal thing, you know, that game of chess is not to be underrated, like, there's a lot you can do moving those pieces around, and in this case, I was confident that person was gonna go back with a better, happier employee that's going to solidify the firm at their stage and that was, that was just a great moment. There are two or three others of those, where there was a finite issue, where if you went back, and took these steps based on everything, you, I and other people who've been in through trenches know, they would be better off. So, that was cool. I'd say the other common theme was, what do you want to be when you grow up? You call it vision, but to a certain extent, people were, it was very hard to, for anybody to give advice or perspective, if the person themselves didn't know where they wanted to go. And we've heard that over time. All the good coaches we had come through our show talked about that, that the first question they need to know is, where do you want to get to? Otherwise, how are you supposed to get yourself there? And that was readily apparent, something that I probably, having been an accidental law firm, an accidental agency to a large extent, much longer topic, the idea that, you know, when you have a beacon, it is much easier to get to that point and when you see people like Ryan McKean, who these, were not people from our group of people like a Ryan McKean or the Jersey Boys, where they know where they want to go. It's a pleasure to watch that journey because you know where the beacon is, and you can see them going there.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, you know. So, let's talk a little bit about day one because day one, you know, it was a kickoff. It was really, you know, one of the great things about a thing like Max Law Con is that, you know, as you as you've been part of the community for a while, and as you participate in the, in the group, and the guild and that type of thing, you develop these long standing relationships with people that are all basically online. And then when you finally do get together, it's really sort of a wonderful experience. It's almost like, like a college reunion, but you never went to college together.

Seth Price

Or imagine if you've been in online college and then you had your in-person reunion. That's like, there were several people I swore I had broken bread with, and they were like, no, we've just been on a ton of Zooms together.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's really cool. I mean, that's one of, one of the things I mean, I know that very first day, I wound up in the bar pretty late, in the casino, with a bunch of people that I, you know, you'd see their name, you saw their profile pic, but now you can really sort of drill down into things, you know. And it was, it was a lot of fun just chatting up with people and sort of catching up. Day one, some of the highlights. I mean, obviously, you know, I was lucky enough to speak on day one, even just kicking off with, with Freese, I thought that was a great presentation. There was, there was so many good things. If you're, if you're watching, if you're listening, make sure you're letting us know what your takeaways from day one were down in the comments, because obviously, we want to have more discussion about this program. That's one thing that Seth and I talked about. So, be sure to let us know down below what some of your highlights from day one Max Law Con were. Seth, anything that jumps out at you as something that you recall?

Seth Price

On an emotive level, we had Jim kick off the day, I loved your presentation, talking to Tyson about, you know, normally Tyson and I just talk for hours, it was great to be able to put, do that in front of an audience. I thought Russ Nesevich was, was really one of the best presentations I've heard for a while. He's a great speaker, but it was a combination of the emotive, which I discount generally, it's great, the stories are great, yeah, what's gonna make me money? But he told his story about how he made money, and I feel like there were takeaways from that. I'm a takeaway guy. People are like, you know, where is the list? What are the action items when you go home? And emotive is great, but making money is even better, then again, emotive can help them make money, but those actual things that you can go back and say, I'm gonna do this now, when I get home, and I felt like Russ talked about the steps he took, the risks he took, and that, put that process in place. So, to me, that was one of the highlights.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, you know what, I mean, one of the things about doing what we do and being legal entrepreneurs really is, we are, I guess, comfortable, or more accepting of a higher level of risk than many of our colleagues. You know, most lawyers are, their job is really to downplay risk, right? I mean, it's to provide, oh, here's all the risky things that you can be doing, and a lot of us sort of charge head-on into risk because we've decided that we're going to, we're going to do our own thing, our own way. And the good thing about Russ is that, when I saw it, too, is you can tell he's done a lot of presentations in his role as a financial adviser over the years, he's very comfortable in front of an audience and, you know, that's one of the things I think, you know, they did a good job selecting speakers that really, you know, do well presenting. I think that's certainly something that, that, you know, you can go to a lot of legal seminars and unfortunately, most continuing legal ed seminars that I've been to, it is basically a demonstration that a person can read from their slides. And that really didn't happen here at Max Law Con. The people who were speaking knew their stuff and, the slides were, you know, were where you took some notes but, you know, you could, you could reach out to like Billie and say, hey, I want to talk to you about changing my stuff, and she knows what she's talking about, regardless of the slides that are in front of her. And with you and Tyson, too, on day one, there was some great stuff, some deep stuff there, that, you know, I think aspirationally people could, could attack and say, you know, in a couple of years I'm gonna be where Seth is at, and some of the things that you have had to consider over time. Talked a little bit about, you know, you losing your office manager to a motorcycle accident and that type of thing, you know, that's like getting hit by a bus, right? Like we talked about.

Seth Price

That's exactly it.

Jay Ruane

That's exactly it. So, you know, you could really do a lot by coming to a conference like this. You know...

Seth Price

I'll say something. You know, it's funny, because you always talk about there, I want takeaways. But I'll give examples of one that was not takeaway driven, but Chris Nicolaysen, who really showed up at Max Law Con, or Max Law, and then, a John Fisher event that, I believe, is where it really kicked off for him. And a lot of people referenced the John Fisher Mastermind as being their launch pad, who have become very successful. But when you saw something, this wasn't about, his wasn't about takeaways, like he wasn't going to show you how to make a buck, but the idea that leveraging these groups, from Fisher's Mastermind to Max Law to Max Law Con, showed his path, and his path has been rather a successful one. And he was in a sort of a mid-level, non-PI market, and he said, you know what, I see in my market to make the money I want and have the lifestyle I want I need to pivot. And it was, it's kind of unusual, in such a short period to see a pivot, successfully be made. And to see how he leveraged these groups would do what I thought was, you know what, you need your tribe, and if nothing else, these groups have left us a tribe that makes us, you know, enjoy the process, as well as have a group to fall back on, which is equally important.

Jay Ruane

You know, you and I both come from the criminal defense field, specifically DUI defense, and, you know, from the DUI defense perspective, a lot of, a lot of us in that field, would often go to seminars, and then after the seminars, around, you know, around the bar, that's where we were relegated to talk business. And there was a certain segment of the, of the group that, you know, didn't want to talk business at all, at ever, at events, and then there was, and then there were people like us who, you know, that's why we were there to find other people that are in the business we're in and, and learn from each other. That's the cool thing about Max Law is, like, I'm learning from PI lawyers what they do, you know, because their sales process is different. They're not looking for that credit card. But a guy like Marco Brown, who needs to get paid upfront, just like we do, and get that money in the bank, we can talk about sales and the sales cycle and getting people to hire us, and that's something that I never would have considered before I was part of this community.

Seth Price

Well, I find this funny, because people would walk up to us, how do you know Jay? Like, you guys seem to have known each other for, for years. And the truth is, there was no Max Law, there was no Fisher Mastermind. We went to seminars, and we were the only two or three people in the nation that we knew of in the criminal space, talking this way, having these conversations. So, before, it was just you and me having a phone call. That's part of the reason, even though both of our firms are sort of scaled beyond it, we know the value of this group, and it didn't exist, and frankly, it doesn't exist even at the higher level. So, we're sort, we're not stuck but, like this is, you know, this is what we've always wanted, is this type of community.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, and it truly is a community. I mean, you can sit, I sit, every day I sat with different people at breakfast and at lunch, and everyone was welcoming, and everybody wanted to know my thoughts on a topic. And then, they wanted to give their opinion on my issues because I would share with them the issues that I had going on. And that's another thing that I think, you know, a lot of the speakers, you know, you go to some other seminars, and they paint this picture that everything is always rosy, and you and I both know, it's, when, you're a law entrepreneur, it's not ever, it's not always rosy.

Seth Price

Well, let me ask you a question. There's a lot of great positive, positive stuff listed, one question which I always struggle with and you've talked about this a bit, which is, you know, when somebody posts something on Max Law, in the, let's say, the Facebook group, and it's vetted more in the symposiums, but there are a lot of opinions given, how do you recommend that an individual sift through that? I think a lot of what I've done, meaning, and I feel like I've earned the right to sort of opine on certain things, but when you read a list, there's no like, "Hey, this is my gross revenue for, this is my profit margin." There's none of those data points that go along with the opinion. You know, a lot of people say, you know, opinions are like a body part. Everybody's got one. But how do you suggest to our audience who are trying to sift and determine which of these different data points. In crowdsourcing, are there people you listen to more than others? What are your thoughts on that? Cause I was thinking about that a lot during the, uh...

Jay Ruane

That's a really interesting question. So, why don't we do this? Why don't we take a quick break. We'll hear from our sponsors, and when we come back, we're going to talk about that question, as well as day two, some final thoughts, and where we plan to take Max Growth Live. So, stick around, we'll be right back with more Maximum Growth Live.

Speaker 3

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Speaker 4

In this world today, if you want to grow your business, you want to grow your firm, you want to take on more cases and make a better impact, you have to have a digital blueprint. Statistically, throughout the time that we've been working with BluShark Digital, our law firm, the Atlanta Divorce Law Group, grew over 1400% they truly understand where we're headed, and how we want to get there. I have a team in BluShark Digital that I feel like has my back.

Jay Ruane

And we're back. And so, the question that Seth posed to me was, you know, when you, when you're in community and Max, so Maximum Lawyers community is what? Almost 5000 people at this point? And yes, there's some vetting of the questions, and then, there's some responses that go along with it. You know, for me, I, I tend to look at everything a little bit critically, and I want to know, if somebody is answering a question, you know, what experience do they truly have, right? Because it's very easy for a solo with a part-time VA to opine about employees and employee management or scaling something, but they can have an opinion, but they wouldn't necessarily have done it. So, I love to see the people who had, I've seen they have scaled their firms over time, you know, over three or four years, you can scale, pretty revolutionary to go from, you know, year one to year four, right, in a three years time period. And I also look at the quality of the commentary that they've done before, you know, if other people rely on them and that type of thing. So, you know, there are people in the, there are people in the community that I would give more credence to. You know, like, free, I mean, if you're, if you're talking about SEO, and you're in, somebody's out there, and there's some schmo who I've never heard of, who says, you know, with my Scorpion site, my SEO is this, this and this, and I know Scorpion, I just, I know they're a pay per click, you know, powerhouse, that's, that's how they get it based on, you know, ever-increasing spend on pay per click, you know. I'm gonna say, well, you know, they may not have had the life experience, you know, my kids can tell me all about the great food in the world, but they really haven't been anywhere to be able to tell me how great food is. They'll tell me how great grilled cheeses are in Orlando, in New York City, and in Bridgeport, Connecticut. But, you know, somebody who's a world traveler, they'll have a different experience. So, I want to make sure that they have a body of knowledge that they're working from. And I like people who say, you know, my, you know, my opinion isn't the only opinion, but here's why I would back it up with some facts. And I'm not looking for people to necessarily tell me what their gross revenue is, and their annual revenue. That actually came up right before the conference, there was a question about, you know, should your, you know, someone said, well, it should be a third profit, a third for expenses, and a third for salaries of employees. And I'm like, I look at my numbers, and it's not broken down that way. I tend to spend more on branding and marketing and that type of thing, and I take home less, specifically because it allows me to have the lifestyle that I want. I'll hire more staff so I don't have to do certain things. What are your thoughts about, you know, when should somebody take the, take the advice of somebody in a Facebook forum?

Seth Price

Well, obviously, you know, the whole idea of social proof that we're seeing now, whether it be travel or restaurants, you know, if I see a restaurant and Jay gave an Italian restaurant a positive review, that means a lot more to me than some schmo. At the same time, you don't always have the benefit of that. You know, one of the things, I'll take it back personally. So, I feel like I've got a lot of good things, scaling the firm, leveraging digital. But one of the things that I saw a lot of people at Max Law do, which I'm a sort of a student of, and meaning a student rather than a teacher of, would be sort of automation. You see a lot of people doing incredible stuff with automation, and I am behind the curve on that, admittedly, within my law firm. Digital agency does all sorts of great stuff, as far as, you know, systems, but it doesn't, it hasn't moved there. So, now I'm sort of looking introspectively, who are those people? Because sometimes it's hard to tell. And, you know, I know that I've looked not within the Max Law community, but another one of these affinity communities, where some of the people that are sort of like sitting next to the leaders on stage doing all these things, turn out to be upside down and bankrupt. And it's tough because, you know, a lot of what we get is unverified numbers. I get this a lot, I'm always looking for white, like vetting shiny objects to see what's there, whether it be a YouTube Play or a social play, or something that even Jay Ruane hasn't figured out. You know, I'm looking at these things, and I'm like, well, they sound great, but is this real? Or is this just a great story, and nobody can vet it because it's not like it's a real estate transaction, where you know, you can look at the public records. You have people telling you revenue, and numbers of cases, with absolutely nothing backing it up. And I've seen it over and over again, where people tell you how to do stuff, and when you ask them for their own numbers, they're paying $2500 to $5000, let's say, per injury case. That's not great, right? There are a lot of other ways to make a buck. So, it's a combination of knowing you want to do stuff, but it is definitely a frustrating process sifting that out.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, I mean, you know, the reality is, the buyer has to beware in any situation. I think, whenever you get lawyers, talking about business anywhere, there's going to have to be some level of puffery that you're going to have to discount just because, you know, I'm not going to talk about the fact that, you know, we had to give $100,000 refund last month. I want to talk about our, my gross revenue numbers, I'm not gonna tell you what the net was, you know. Because, you know, the top line is for vanity, the bottom line is for sanity, right? And, you know, people want to give the impression they need and that they're a little more successful than they are, and...

Seth Price

One side is fake it till you make it.

Jay Ruane

Right.

Seth Price

The other, when I was doing stuff before I did law, in the real estate world, I always took what, whatever anybody said, they cut it in half and, if I didn't believe them much, I cut it in half again. And those were actually generally pretty good ways of looking at stuff. I'm inspired by people who sort of push themselves, it can become, it can drag you down, you think, oh my god, what are they doing, that I'm not doing. And you've just gotta be careful, because a lot of times, it's not all what it seems from the outside.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, I think what it comes down to is people need to have, you know, their antenna up, and they have to be listening. And the thing is too, you know, just because something works for another person and another practice area, doesn't necessarily that it's going to mean the same thing to you and your practice areas and it's not necessarily going to get the same results. I mean, let's, let's face facts. I mean, if you think about it, America Online grew through direct mail, there was a lot of people who were saying direct mail was done at the time. America Online, when Groupon, its entire business model was, was basically an email list, right? I mean, that's, that's what Groupon was, they sold access to an email list of millions of people. You know, if you pick something and you go all in on it, and you do it the right way, you're going to get results for sure. The problem with coming out of a thing like Max Law Con, I think is there's some shiny object stuff that people start chasing, and they don't necessarily, you know, think it all the way through, and you have the critical skills to think it all the way through. One of the things that I thought was awesome on day two was Mike Allbee's presentation about the different software that he uses, and what he's doing. He used a lot to talk about, you know, what topics to create for content, how to, you know, how to identify what people are talking about online. One of the ones, one of the guys I was talking to, I told him, and I posted about it in either in the Guild or the big group recently is, you know, scraping Avo for questions from the public, and I got someone who actually says I can do you one better, go on Reddit. There are forums about your local area and lawyers in your local area that you don't even know exist right now. So I went down the Reddit wormhole over the last, you know, couple of days and, oh my god, I've got, you know, 500 ideas for content we can be pushing out there and videos that are gonna go on social and on TikTok and all these wonderful things. But that's the thing, I saw people out there also who, who were like, I gotta get on TikTok, and if it's not your thing, just throwing up one TikTok video isn't gonna, isn't gonna make it. I know there are people that are gonna be successful at it.

Seth Price

Even, even Mike Allbee, who's one of my favorites, who went viral, it's not like he's retiring off that. Monetizing TikTok fame, and there, again, is places for everything. I think that people who've done this in certain niche markets. So, there's like immigration with a longer sales cycle, where the personality goes through maybe even family law, but some of the more transactional, criminal and PI, it's a much, much harder conversion.

Jay Ruane

Oh, absolutely, absolutely.

Seth Price

The piece of advice I was given recently, though, was what you can do is take some of the, the experience you get with organic social, that you're so great with, and then picking from that what you want to pay for, like, what you want to put money behind and using your organic social as the weather barometer to determine what is the best way to do it.

Jay Ruane

Well, that's actually one of the things that we launched at Max Law Con for those who were not there, at FirmFlex, we actually launched social sales funnels. So, that was the, that was our big announcement at the conference, and so what we'll do, you can go on getfirmflex.com and find out more about it. But what we've actually done is we've gone out, and Jen, my content person, has created 25 different e-books that people can opt-in for, and we'll actually set up, you know, a trigger post, video, post, reviews, carousel, we'll do all of that stuff and set the whole funnel up for you. And I think that's the thing to really amplify social is, is selectively spending money in the right places. And there's no free play on social anymore, hasn't been for years, but if you combine the organic stuff that you can do for free, and you do this, and you do the selective social funnels, you could really sort of amplify and get them. Sort of, like, you're going to want to have organic SEO, and you may want to supplement it with pay per click to get, you know, things happening. It's, it's the way, it's the wave of the future, but, you know, imagine being, imagine being able to be on the one television station in town, and get inside people's heads, and that's what, that's what social is all about. I mean, people are spending four hours a day on their phones, three and a half of it in social media. So, it's like being on the one TV show in town, and you can get in their heads. So, if you're not spending money on social, you better be. So, other thing we want to talk about, Seth, before we call this one quits, is we want to start up a Maximum Growth Live Facebook group because what we're seeing is we're getting distribution in John Fisher's group and the Maximum Lawyer group, in our group, and what we'd like to do is we'd like to bring everybody together so we can have more constructive dialogue. We've got, you know, thousands of people listening in all different places, even getting people on the podcast that are listening, and sending in comments, but if we can have one place to do it. So I'm gonna go ahead and get that set up and hopefully, by the time you're listening to this, you're gonna search out and join the Maximum Growth Live Facebook group, and then Seth and I will be monitoring that group and engaging people in conversation. And I think Seth, maybe you can add some people from BluShark there, if people have digital questions as well, they can monitor it, because we want to give people the best of everything that we can give, and I'll, of course, pipe in on anything social. What do you think about that?

Seth Price

Yeah, that sounds great. It just, you know, it's funny when you set this up, that we wanted to be able to make this interactive so when we're having these conversations, people can continue the conversation offline. They say that in a lot of forums, but I feel like we need to raise the bar. So, that's our, you know, we got a year before the next Max Law Con, number four, they've already announced dates, let's make sure that we have a vibrant community that, that can be, you know, sharing and building on the growth strategies and digging down into those areas that we saw so much demand for out in St. Louis.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, I mean, that's what we're, we're really all about is helping your law firm grow and get it to the scale that you want it to be at. And he might, I don't want the same thing that Seth over there, that Seth over there wants. The idea of me having 40 lawyers in my office, I don't say it frightens me, but it just, that's not the vision, that's not the ideals that I want to have. I'm very happy with where I'm at, and that's what it's all about, growing your firm is, growing a firm that you want to have to give you the life that you desire. And that's really the most important thing, and I want to talk about that, you know, vision or, you know, that sort of soul bearing thing because, you know, a lot of people have to address that question, Seth, but it's not something that's easily done. You know, you almost have to go through a therapist-type situation and talk about it, and that's something that I'd like to talk about in the coming weeks is, is how do you, how do you create that vision? What do you think about? You know, who are the, who are the players in the conversation? You know, all that stuff matters. And so, I think that's something that we should we should task for the coming, coming episodes, and if you are in our Facebook group right now, set up a post and tell us down below about how did you come about your vision? Because maybe we'll get you here on another edition of Maximum Growth Live, but for now, Seth, I think that's a good show. You know, I'm still a little tired from Max, Maximum Law Con. It was, it was a great event, but I got very little sleep.

Seth price

You're tired, I headed to Vegas for the weekend. So, I just got back from MTMP, which was extraordinary. Hence the voice.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, that's, let's talk about that next week. You've kind of lost your voice, but you know, I did, you know, I'm two Max Law Cons in, I've given four presentations. I think, you know, maybe the next one, I'll probably do eight presentations and try to just have a whole Jay Ruane track day, I'll just do mine over and over and over again.

Seth Price

As there should be.

Jay Ruane

That would be exhausting. That would be absolutely exhausting, but I'm already thinking of ideas, things that I can teach people.

Seth Price

I got the slogan for it: "All Jay, all the time."

Jay Ruane

"All Jay, all day." There we go. I love it. Alright, folks, that's gonna do it for us here live at Maximum Growth Live. Once again, thank you for being part of this journey with us, and thank you for tuning in each week. If you want to follow us, you can catch our podcasts, not only on the Maximum Lawyer podcast, but also on our own syndicated Maximum Growth Live podcast. Of course, if you want to catch us, you can catch us every Thursday here, 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific. And as always, if you want to catch up with Seth and his SEO Insider, you can catch that on the BluShark digital page. For me, my Max Law Con presentation was about systems, and I put up one slide during my show, during my presentation. Seth, I got like 75 new people to join our group are Systemising Your Law Firm for Growth Facebook group, and if you want to join that, certainly you can do so. And as always, we are here at FirmFlex and at BluShark, if you have any SEO or social, we're happy to take those calls and questions because we're really all about helping people out. Seth, I got nothing left, you got anything left for the people? Where are you off to next? What's your next conference?

Seth Price

You know, I'm thankfully home, the team is going off to the next few, and I get to spend a little bit more time with the family in the new house.

Jay Ruane

Nice. Yes, Seth just moved everybody. He showed up at Max Law Con exhausted from moving and then put on a killer, killer presentation with Tyson and really gave it his all, so when you get a chance to watch the videos, absolutely do it. Okay, that's gonna do it for us right now. I am Jay Ruane, he is Seth Price. Bye for now.

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