Join Seth and Jay as they talk Inflation and quoting fees and the use/misuse of EOS and Traction in your office AND which is better – EOS or Vistage if you can only choose one to spend on?
Hello, hello. Welcome to another edition of The Law Firm Blueprint. I’m one of your hosts Jay Ruane and my man over there is Seth J. Price. Seth Jehoshaphat Price. I’m gonna come up with a different middle name for you.
It’s so crazy. I never, in all my life I was Jay, and the name is Jay White. I never, we’ve been friends for like over a decade, and I never pulled together, cause, I don’t, I think of the initial I never think of my middle name that like we are bonded through a knee.
Well, yeah, but my name isn’t Jay, it’s James. And I just go by the nickname Jay.
Understood. I just, the irony though.
The irony of it. You know, there’s all these seven degrees of connection, I guess, you know, that type of thing. But, Seth, I want to talk to you about something this week on the show. And, last week, I was reading about FedEx, right. And FedEx basically revoked their entire year’s earnings guidance, their shares plummeted. They’re closing like 90 stores, laying off, stopping flights, parking planes, in anticipation of this recession. And we, I know, we talked last week about recession. So it seems that some of these big companies are talking more and more about it.
I don’t want to be part of that fear mongering. So let’s, let’s get to the substance.
Let’s get to the substance. So here’s what I want to say. So two weeks ago, I’m in Austin, and I need to get some paper printed for our booth at a DUI, DLA Texas criminal defense lawyers conference. And I go in and I get color copies two sided, and to get 150 pages color copy two sided, it cost me like, over $200. And I said, Oh my god, inflation is real, because I don’t ever remember it costing that much. I don’t go to them often. But I’ve never seen it that much. And I’m starting to look, then I saw, I came home, talk to my people. And I’m like, let’s talk inflation because it’s starting to, I’m starting to see it more and more on the stuff that we use, and our costs for staff have gone up, our costs… supplies have gone up, our costs for advertising have gone up, and dramatically. And I’m thinking, are we raising our prices in line with that? Because it’s going to impact net revenue at the end of the year, if we’re still quoting fees, and our costs have gone up. So I want your opinion on that. How has that affected you?
Look, I’ve been struggling with this. We did an EOS day yesterday, I’ll talk about that in a minute. But that was one of my topics, which is, look, line item number one is employees, so before we get to, look, off site, travel business stuff is always shocking, right? They have you buy insurance, you want it or not, great, who cares, right? So but for us entry level went from, you know, 30s into low 40s, to like 52 is not crazy for, you know, for a college grad that, just, so all the sudden each of the employees are pushing north, and they need to because their costs have gone up. So, and that’s like that’s our largest line item. Part of what the genius of Jay Ruane is, is that you kick my ass. We now went from, you know, a couple people overseas, I had between BluShark and Price Benowitz, have over 100 people in Latin America wake up every day with a paycheck from us. You know, when I talked about building a business doing that, I’m like, You know what, I’m just gonna do it for myself. So part of it is whether it be Latin America whether it be Wichita, Kansas, finding talent where it is because if they’re not coming to the freakin’ office, I want to figure out what is the most cost effective way to do it. I hate it. I hate the Shark Tank ethos. Have you got the China if you got the China you’re getting it for the lead. Like I don’t want to tank our economy, but I also have a responsibility that if we don’t keep the corporates of our employees, it’s not like we’re offshoring the entire firm, but if we don’t make sure that we can keep paying people who we love, trust and need on our team and get them the raises they need, they’re gonna leave, so that if I can’t find, something’s gotta give. So that’s first thing. Second, you know, this was the talk yesterday from John Knox, we’ll talk more in a moment. You know, get your expenses, look at your top, you know, what are you spending, you know, your your top 20% of expenses outside of staff and marketing. He says take staff and marketing aside, and what they are in, line them up and start you know, comparison shopping. If it’s a vendor, seeing where you can squeeze, figuring out what’s there, it’s gonna get tough. Like, I mean, that’s the other part, which is we see it, like, the only good thing may be at some point, hiring may be easier. Right? You know, if there’s less competition, I built the firm and, you know, I scaled the firm away of 9, 10, even 11. Like, we would get people’s resumes four or five times before we picked it out. And they were like, they needed us. Recently, as we saw, and I think the good and bad news is that people have options in a great way. But as an employer, you know, you’ve also indicated because of debt and other costs, we’re not seeing people come out of law school in the numbers they were. And when they are, I don’t know, if you’ve had this, I’ve had these conversations with people, I’ve lost people, because they have too much law school debt, and they have a sweet deal working for a government agency. And if they finish out their 10 years, their law school debt is gone. And I can’t with a straight face say, delta, I’m going to pay them, it’s going to make them better.
Right. So this leads me to the next conversation on this topic. And it’s how do you deal with setting fees in an inflationary market? Because like, I know, okay, my operation is a lot different from your operation, in that I have a sales lawyer. My sales lawyer, what we have done, and I’ll put this out there for everybody, is we have said, you know, this is a baseline, this is our baseline, you cannot go below this baseline for these types of cases. And then of course, if there’s opportunity, if there’s a value add or something like that, we can charge more if it’s a different attorney, a specialized attorney, that type of thing. We can charge more to the clients because they’re getting a different level of product. But you have a situation where your attorneys are quoting fees, and if the attorney is making X number of dollars, right. And they are comfortable quoting the fees that they’re quoting, all of the other expenses, like your support staff, and your marketing, and all that stuff has gone up, but they’re not quoting higher to afford that. So the delta for them if they charge, you know, if they charge 10,000, for a case that they should be charging 15,000. It’s only like $1,000 extra to them. But it’s 4,000 to you, which covers a lot of costs.
Now you’re seeing why I’m concerned about inflation. So two things, first of all, wait for January to figure this out, he’s gonna give me a memo, go up 23%. Because that’s the sweet spot. But, what I would say is, it’s tough and I can almost have a case study here because I have at least five rockstars each doing a million plus with themselves, their own business unit, our marital lawyers, we have David Phillips in South Carolina is a freaking beast, these guys both through their acumen and marketing abilities. When I say marketing abilities, their ability to interact with clients, are able to, I believe hit a number that has kept up with inflation. Their numbers, the average lawyer here does not have a seven figure gross on criminal plus, like that’s, these guys are jamming. I’m not worried there. Your point is extremely well taken. What keeps me up at night is too strong a… what I’m concerned about is that my formula works in that, you’re right, it doesn’t cost them that much. But when they, we have the same incentives, that if they don’t raise their prices, and their salary stagnates, they’re not making any more. The downside of this is, okay, let’s say they say you know what, I’m just not capable of it, which is partly the mantra, right, markets not allowing you to do this. I say, BS, you need to be better than that. And you need to be able to add value, talking to a lot of people about this. What can you do that shows and brings value beyond the $3,500, which you’ve been selling for seven, eight, ten years. So what I would say is the bigger fear, not only is the margin shrinking, and it’s exactly right, because support staff is more, everything else we’re talking about is more, insurance, everything. But, we now have a lawyer whose salary is stagnating. And if there’s opportunity in the market, my deal will be less valuable to date. It’s been amazing. We just celebrated another two 10 year anniversaries at the firm, more and more we have people that are breaking that tenure barrier. It’s just, my formula has worked historically. The issue I believe is, if it doesn’t work as well, and people are like, Okay, I’m still at 100,000 a year. Right? And they’re like, before that was fine, that $100,000 a year, as you just demonstrated on color photocopies whatever, burgers are now breaking the $20 barrier, personal pizzas are approaching $20. The world is insane, right? The fact that you could theoretically go to a matchbox, hip, you know, pizza burger joint or place and personal pizzas are $18 with tip and tax. You’re over $20 for a pizza. I don’t do it. A family of four for pizza is now like $140, without drinking, I mean, stop it. It’s real. But, that said, my fear is that I no longer going to have, that my opportunity won’t be as rich. And that’s why I’m sort of struggling because I want some of these guys to be able to wake up and say, You know what, we do need to push, push the needle, and part of it is people are used to it. Now you’re gonna have downward pricing pressure, but it’s like we’ve always talked about, I mean, way, way back when you and I first met, we met people, like a guy in LA won’t talk games, who was like just charging crazy stupid amount of money for DUI, in my opinion, they’re just, pick numbers, he sold it, he had a great sale. I don’t know how well it worked over time. But it was, it seemed to be an impressive machine a decade ago. But my question here is, I’m not saying that doubling and tripling stuff. But how can you not be the rock bottom guy, and instead be, hey– And the good news is, as, look, we’ve always talked back and forth, junior attorney for a senior attorney, the senior people who started with us in that fourth to eighth year, who are now 10 years at the firm, they do have the gravitas. In some of their markets, they are the go-to player, or on a shortlist of a few. And at that point, you can get a premium, you know, the struggle you probably had was no longer, Jay Ruane goes to court on your DUI. Not saying you’re getting the old Bubba money, but you get good money if you showed your ass there. The question is, what are you getting for your staff for your salesperson? Can you leverage that Jay Ruane brand? And I think that that’s, if we can’t differentiate ourselves, and we’re selling the same widget, and there are recent graduates throwing and keeping pricing pressure down. You’re right. There’s a whole world of hurt coming.
Yeah, you know, it’s funny. It’s funny that you mentioned Bubba’s name. I actually saw him last week in Texas. He was at the conference. And it was good seeing him still out and about doing this thing. You know, we were talking a little bit about marketing and talking about some old cases. He had a great thing that I don’t have it here on my desk, but he started doing some, I guess, some expungements type stuff. And he had custom Tide pens with his face on them. And I was like, Oh, that’s great. I never thought…
He was so far ahead of his time, it’s awesome. He just sent me a lovely note the other day. Apparently, I didn’t even know this, an attorney in one of our jurisdictions was incapacitated, and their caseload, and one of our attorneys stepped up to sort of help that person wind down their practice. I didn’t even know about it, that’s how random it was. But he had heard about it and sent me a nice note.
That’s awesome. Okay, so next I want to talk about is your traction day, because this is something that I, I’ve read traction, I believe there’s some good to it. But having been to a number of conferences where people talk about traction as if it is a Bible, and it is, I see some value in it when you’re an operation, maybe my size, maybe your size, but the majority of people that we interact with are not and I see people, wait, let me finish let me finish. This is, I see people who are at, you know, lawyer, paralegal, part time staffer, and they’re going to introduce traction into their firm, and they need to have an integrator, and then I’m thinking you should be spending that money on other things first.
Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna just disagree respectfully with Jay Ruane. And I mean, look, it’s not a Bible. You know me, like I’m the last person you expected in that world. Meaning, this is, and I, we’ve had a Verne Harnish on, who is the, you know, the professor of Gina Whitman, right. I would argue, objectively, scaling up to me is much more intellectually satisfying and a formula that I’ve, if I look at BluShark, we’ve followed closer to that model. And that, not that when you take a pre-traction, a pre-EOS test, BluShark off the charts as teams, as communication, and as feedback. It’s doing a lot of things really well. And I kind of leave that to itself, but I’m gonna circle back to in that a second. Price Benowitz , you know, it needed it. Now, we’re larger than many of our audience members. But I would say that, the first thing it forces you to do is an org chart, and be disciplined about it, right, which a lot of people sort of are iffy on.
And if you’re in the Law Firm Blueprint, Facebook group, be sure to look and do a search for how to build an org chart because we actually have a Law Firm Blueprint guide to building an org chart, but go ahead.
No, no, no. And like, I love this, please feel free to jump in. So a second guest, we had Michael Gerber, who was awesome. And both on and a lot off screen we had a discussion about how far you’re e-myth-ing something. And what I have liked about EOS, and there are a lot of people in our group that want to be more entrepreneurial, although they’re still holding on to litigation responsibilities, and that may not end for a while for them. But, the integrator piece, and this is not like an integrator, like, Hey, I’m hiring a person for this one project, and they’re not useful for any of it. You get an office manager, right? That’s what it is, right? For me it’s an ops director for someone’s COO, you’re getting a person who’s not you to do, and that, we’ve talked about over the years, is an essential hire along the wealth.
Unbelievably so.
So if you stop thinking of it, I’m buying somebody to sprinkle fairy dust as part of this piece, it is a simple program. Is it the best? Maybe not. But it forces you to follow something. And if you had the discipline to do it, and look, David Brenton at BluShark, I don’t need it. Right. And there are pieces. He’s right, he runs up, unbelievable, now it doesn’t have the issues of a law firm, I think that he would be better off with it, but for us at the law firm with legacy issues, some interesting dynamics between personalities, this exercise of quarterly meetings with a weekly, you know, quarterly, day long meetings, with a weekly one hour one and a half hour meeting, has been a game changer for us. We were dysfunctional at communication. I knew this before. We just had John Knox Hazel flew in, came back after the John Fisher mastermind, again, not everyone is going to have, you don’t need Knox Hazel. His daughter showed up to this thing, amazing rising star, you just need to be forced to be in a room. It’s like a trainer. Right? Do you need the celebrity trainer that is on the ABC show? No, you need somebody to get you to the gym that knows what to do. And if you bond with them, that’s all that matters. And what his job, when done right, he’s not telling us what to do. He’s facilitating the conversation. And then my ops director and our head of finance, are sitting at lunch, figuring out the issue, because there’s a personality issue between our front desk, for lack of a better word, administrative staff, and our financial staff. Could be in some place, just two people. But we realized there was an issue in management of one half of that equation that we need to tweak and things, things would happen. And I’m saying that again, for me, where I’m like, hey, I can go to another conference, I can take another networking lunch, I can go and do other business development activities. This has been the one thing for me, that has forced me to sit down and add structure to the running of the day to day, in a way that is not my sweet spot. It’s not what I like, we attempted with an internal F-tard, who tried to run it for us, granted, he ended up like, our HR guy had an HR issue with one of our interns, the parents are a good friend of ours. But I digress. The point is we couldn’t do it ourselves. And frankly, there needs to be an adult in the room to force you to be there like a trainer to go through what are difficult issues. But I could tell you after one day, we came out with more clarity. And if not like these rocks, our first set of rocks admittedly, were vague and not check-off-able as much. Whereas I believe that right now we know we need to make certain hires, we know that we need to add certain software integrations, we have very finite things that if we do it, we will be more successful. As well as discussing longer term things like inflation, and hiring funnels, things we could talk, I’d like to talk about next, which is junior hires versus mid tier hires, given how hard the job market is, you know, you and I will talk in a second about that. But for me, I’m sorry to go off, I have found that forcing you to go, and EOS starts like 3,000 a month just to get a basic coach, 3,000 a meeting, five times a year, $15,000 buy in, you know that’s a hard one to find. But what I’m saying is, if you can find somebody 15 or $20,000 that actually forces your firm to communicate and structure itself, again, is it the best? Not telling you it is. Is it the Bible? Absolutely not. It is a one platform that seems to work for a lot of people.
And so this is for manager levels only, you’re not going down to employee levels because I think it’s going to address the issue that we talked about with inflation is because you need your people on the ground quoting higher fees.
But that’s a discussion you could have, which is okay–
How do you get them there?
I mean, again, that would be for them their fires and flames, and I get it, some HR issues with software but basically, it gives you time to talk this out. And if you’re sitting there, and let’s say hypothetically, you have your integrator there, you’re there, the visionary, and you have, you may sit several seats, it’s smaller firms, you may have several seats until you hire beyond. But if that, assuming for a second that you’re ahead of intake, that intake drag-in, if you have that world or intake attorney is there, and you’re like, Okay, what are those, and it gives you time outside the confines of a regular check in, it’s a structured way to have that discussion, come to a conclusion. And the thing that Knox Hazel talked about was, because he works with Mike Morris, right, you know, and he’s like, hired the polar opposites and the job, and we saw this is you sit there, you argue, you discuss with two or three of those moments yesterday, and come up with a resolution. At the end of it, nobody knows whose it is, it is the resolution going forward, whether you agree with it or not. John’s like, I do stuff at the firm like, I can’t stand, this is not for me, but I’m gonna go forward because we have decided collectively to do it. So it may be that somebody says, market isn’t ready for it, we can’t get another dollar. If that’s the decision, they’re going to do it, or you’re going to say, hey, I want to go 15%, we’ll see what happens. Give it a quarter, or let me know, and then once that decision is made, everybody moves forward with it.
I just, I don’t know, I just I feel, you know, I like the concept of it. But quarterly meetings with my whole team, I just see, I see that being a waste of time. I’m having these conversations with them weekly, as the CEO.
But the idea then, is it’s the one time you take stock in all those things, because otherwise it keeps, again, this isn’t like I’m saying, I am saying it is valuable for us. It is something that is simple, and simple can be good, in the sense that we lose, things happen. I’ll give you a great micro example of somebody who wasn’t even at our EOS. We have this amazing new recruiter. And there was an issue where one of the managers needed a particular position hired. And for whatever reason, it was part of the overseas hiring. They were trying to hire overseas lawyers, and they weren’t finding anybody that was suited. The right answer was for her to go back to those people and say, Look, I’m looking for lawyers internationally, I’m not seeing what you want, we do have luck with non lawyers, do you want me to go there. Instead, she waited for them to sort of explode to, what the hell I’m not getting anybody. And they come to her and it got to change. So I think what these meetings do is give you an, it’s an opportunity, sort of like when we had the 15Five guy, there’s a certain amount of stuff that you can get talking to people, there’s a certain amount of stuff that you get in those emails, there’s a certain amount of stuff your weekly meetings take place, there’s a certain amount of place where you sit down, you’re like, Hey, I’m gonna go through all of this, layout priorities, and figure out what are those issues? It just, that would be the closest analogy I have, that there are things that the weekly meetings accomplish, and things that the quarterly meetings I think, have. And I will leave you with this on this topic, before we wrap up, the piece that was most noticeable, wasn’t necessarily all of the action item takeaways. Although yesterday was a great day with lots of them, and everybody left feeling much better. But the palpable difference in communication amongst this team, and the level of trust and communication was exponentially higher, maybe it was too low to begin with. But it really helps in building those communication lines within your team, in multifaceted, not just you to each person, but as a team, I feel that we are humming as a team much, much better than before we started.
Yeah, like I mean, my firm, my C suite, right, my, you know, sales operations administration people. And me, we have a Slack channel, that’s a private channel for the four of us. And we’re constantly posting stuff back and forth. So we’re communicating that way, especially since we’re in different offices. And it’s just easier to do that. But I mean, I guess I could see some value in it. I just don’t want people rushing to do it, before they actually have the seats, you know, the seats that can actually generate revenue filled.
And also spending the resources on it. But once you do have a C suite, right, again, if you don’t have an office manager, it’s very hard to do this. I say office manager, because you need that person, because strictly 80% of the action items are going back to that person. Who then delegates them out. They’re not like doing them all, but delegating them out. If that person is not there, then it’s going back to the person in the firm and you’re no better off. But the key is, you know, I’m talking Mr. systems here. And I can’t say I’m Mr. non-systems, but it’s not my pleasure and joy. I need somebody to force me to do this. And this has done so. I would argue though, that if David Brenton, who is you, and doesn’t wish to, has a great culture, great operations, great systems, that even this that he just gives process. And again, there’s if you don’t like it, there’s nothing you know, it’s also not a lifetime thing. People look at it as a two year run with an integrator, many people that just run it themselves. And the only question is, do you need a full day? You can’t right now imagine what you talk about in a full day meeting, when I go, when I’m like, I can’t imagine what we’re gonna do. It was a full day, every minute spent, 15 minutes of touchy feely at the beginning and end, but everything else was tackling real, real issues that the firm is facing.
Okay. I mean, it’s, it’s something worth considering. I liked some of the takeaways from the book. And I think it’s something that we should work on maybe, you know, maybe more structured to our C suite. Talking is appropriate, something that I should definitely consider. But it’s not necessarily something I’m going to run right towards, even though I do appreciate the value in the book, maybe I’m in this weird space where I’m not scaling anymore, I’m really happy in the spot that I’m in. And you know, and our operations seems to be working, and I’m bigger than, you know, a small shop. But you know, with 12 to 14 lawyers, depending on where we’re at. And our revenues. I mean, our revenues are growing, we’re not having to add more staff, we’re in a good spot, you know.
I’ll challenge you on this then. So if you really, and like we’ve known each other a kazillion years, more than a decade, probably 15 years at this point, if you really wanted to step back, which is, that’s what you wish, I believe this is your most likely path to having a stable environment where you’re not constantly being sucked in. Yes, it includes a quarterly meeting. And yes, it includes a weekly meeting. But this is the best path as I see it. And I would argue, look, I watched the John Knox Hazel John Fisher webinar for two days on this, we tried implementing it ourselves with the system with somebody in house. It wasn’t until I got the personal trainer, and granted we got the celebrity personal trainer, but I am convinced that his daughter who’s brand new and a fraction of the price, that anybody sitting there would force us to do this. It’s almost like jumping off into the water. In a, you know, on the lower dollar one. It’s a $20,000 annual nut, let’s use a real number, right $20,000 nut, four days of your life, and a weekly meeting you’re already doing, so you’re already doing your weekly meeting, right? It’s just a structure for them. So all you’re really talking about is four quarterly meetings and a kickoff. And so what I would say is, you know, and I don’t want to be like a cold person, like, Oh, my God this is the only thing. But given what you have stated, which is you want to be, you know, the visionary, and you really don’t want to be in the weeds. This seems to be a another step in that direction, which, again, I looked at it this way, the reason I jumped off the cliff, the number of business friends outside of law with legitimate, you know, significant businesses running on this was so large, I’m like, I hate to be like if every else is doing, try it.
So let me ask you this, then. And we’re going long, and I appreciate you bearing with me. So the cost for running EOS, you know, and following that model is about what the cost would be for something like Vistage, which is getting you out into a group of other business people, owners, that type. Okay, so then that question is, what do you do? Do you bet that one or the other?
It depends on where you are in your career? What do you want? What is your need? Right? Your needs? You just said, I’m again, I’m playing. I’m just reflecting on what I hear from Jay Ruane. If your need was, I want to go and open three new product lines. I want to figure out what to do. Yeah, Vistage is great. Gets your entrepreneurial juices flowing. That’s awesome. Where can I invest, what’s you know, what’s a great HR solution? You got your house, you’re trying to run your machine. So to me if I got $20,000 to go one way or the other, you know, to me, looking at Jay Ruane, as opposed to anybody else listening, like this seems like a no brainer in the sense that you want to make a lifestyle, this is going to give you a more stable lifestyle because right now you want to be on the tee ball field and baseball field and not worry about being called into a fire. This gives you more of a chance of executing on that, in my opinion, than a Vistage which is the bigger picture to build and grow and scale which is not what you have stated that you want, not that both are valuable, and take nothing away from Vistage. Right now, I literally tried to sign up, my travel schedule was heavy enough that I couldn’t get to the trial session, like, so I love Vistage. I love EO. I love YPO, you’re young enough, that’s an amazing organization. But you’re, Jay, you’re exactly right, that I don’t want to see a solo saying I need traction.
And that’s my thing is that, you know, you can join Vistage, you can bring in an integrator and do the EOS system. And then you look at your books at the end of the year, and you made nothing and you paid all these different things for essentially treading water because you had no money left to invest in the actual business.
This is not 20,000 a month for, it is, you can do this cost effectively, I just don’t think you could do it for free. I am, again, there are people more disciplined than me. And if you have nothing, for like $100 a month, you can have a software and run this thing yourself. But the key is, until you’re at the point where you have a true office manager and a few people running things, that is what this brings together. And if you look at the org chart, and you don’t have enough seats at the table, then you’re right, I think it may be premature. But what I’m saying, looking at Jay Ruane, if you are, and again, it’s ironic, because it’s systems based, and I’m sitting here as non Mr. systems saying, Hey, here’s one that you might really like, in that, again, it is not the most–My guess is, if you did this and went through it, you’d be like, hey, I want to change seven things. I’m sure it’d be better, I’m fine with the fact that it’s adequate, and you run through it. And we’ve met Vern, Vern is at a different level than this. And if I could afford a Vern Harnish to come into my four quarterlies, I’m sure I’d have a better thing. But the fact that they follow this very fundamental basic, and it allows you to get shit done, look at problems, discuss them. That to me, I didn’t have, so for myself, and again, reflecting you, you want to not grow, have lifestyle, you know, one year of doing this, you’re gonna say this is great. And now I can just, I can literally be there for these meetings and keep things on track, which you’re already doing. So that’s the other part. You’re already doing your weekly meetings. It’s just a formula for it. That’s my conversation with David Brett, you’re doing most of this. The question is, are you doing something between these on a quarterly basis that is bigger, and this is just a program that is fine, but happens to, at least in our world, by having a set of rules? Why do you think organized religion works? You know, it gives you a set of rules and makes you take a day off. We were talking before…
That’s why I say people treat it like it’s the Bible, Seth.
But you know what? You need to otherwise it won’t work, meaning a Bible, and it is your Bible. It doesn’t, like Book of Mormon, you see the show?
No, I haven’t.
You should take it. But there’s a moment at the end. I don’t have a spoiler alert. There’s a moment where somebody’s like, are all of these stories in the book, and the Mormon book is, you know, that’s my Mormon friends. But there’s some pretty extreme stories in their book. Not that there aren’t in the Bible. Exactly. But the point is, it gives you a set of rules, it forces you to take a day off, whether it be Saturday or Sunday. If you didn’t, you keep working and you drop dead. It’s a set of rules. So is it a Bible? It’s a Bible with a lowercase B, not because it is all right. But if you have something to follow, better than nothing to follow, because, you know, those that don’t take any time off and up with, you know, hypertension, if it forces you, I mean, like the Sabbath. If you literally do nothing for a day, that’s probably better for your health, then what we do, which is run back and forth and carpool to youth sports all day.
You know, I’ve got to be on the road 7am on Sunday morning. You know, I am not a morning person. But we’ve got a travel baseball game an hour away starting at, you know.
And you’re just starting that world. So let’s table our last discussion… Yeah, let’s table, I really want to talk you know, you and I have debated junior vs mid tier hires. And not that I’m reversing course, but I want to talk a little bit about the Jay Ruane model, which, you know, frankly, had always been going back to law schools and getting people out early, versus I don’t want to deal with the breakage and, and figuring out what people want to do when they grow up.
Awesome. Alright folks, so that’s gonna do it for us here this week on the Law Firm Blueprint. As always, you can follow along with the conversation, posting your questions below here in the show notes. But you can also check us out wherever podcasts are available by looking up the Law Firm Blueprint podcast and I would love a five star review from you if you are listening to the podcast and you enjoy it. Seth, any final words?
I’m spent, this is awesome.
This is a lot of Seth show, this was the Seth show today, but that’s okay. I toss ’em up, and you smack me down.
It was the Jay show because how can Mr. systems be like, have a guy who’s like, a guy who doesn’t love systems, you like put a picture of a Bible, it’s a system. There’s so many…
I got to mix it up. You know, I’m trying to mix it up for people. You know, I mean, at the end of the day, I posted something in the group last week, you can’t scale chaos and you know, you need to, you need to be on top of things and make sure that you’re not going forward with chaos and, this may be the next thing now that I have my C suite I can delegate to them to like get this meeting in. And part of the thing is, I’m just tired of people, man. I had to cover something in court the other day, and I don’t mind going to court. I don’t love it, but I don’t mind it but man, I got there at 8:30 and I didn’t walk out until 1pm and I just was like, this is a such a colossal waste of my time. I could be doing so much more, but it is what it is. Alright folks, that’s gonna do it for us today. Please join us every Thursday 3pm Eastern 12pm Pacific here on the Law Firm Blueprint. Bye for now.
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