Join Seth & Jay as they talk automation and funnels with Sam Mollei, and also talk a little about his new book!
Hello Hello and welcome to another edition of the law firm blueprint. I’m wondering chose to remain CEO of the criminal mastermind as well as firm flexor Social Media Marketing Agency for lawyers. And with me as always down there, Seth Josephat price. My man, Seth is the Grand Poobah of all things digital and blue shark, digital as well as managing partner and grand Pooh Bah, where they already say that of, you know, I said of price better which DC, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, Idaho, Wisconsin, and Louisiana as a week on this page going great. And to dovetail to our guest. You know, I think that when we’re done speaking to Sam, we may have to open nationally, because he’s all about creating, you know, funnels that I assume works better on a global basis than on a local basis. You know, it’s really interesting. I’ve read his book. That’s actually why we have him on the show, because I wanted to talk to him about the book. And so I reached out to him, and we started chatting, and I realized that, you know, he’s really known in the community that has legal funnels, right. You see that a lot on social media. But there’s a lot more to his story. That’s it’s, it’s not just about funnels, it’s a lot more about automation, which is what the book gets into, which was really sort of fascinating to me, because I like using tech tools. And I thought he’d be a great guest and sort of talk about some of the things that he’s been able to do. Because, you know, a lot of people see his name see is see the legal funnels product, but they aren’t necessarily knowledgeable about what you can actually do with tech, with funnels and the like. So what I’d like to do is not waste any time and just get him right in right into the show. Does that sounds good? Sounds good. All right, folks. We’ll be right back with Sam Mollei, and be ready for a great interview. I think it’s gonna go really well. We’ll be right back.
Hello, and welcome back to the law firm blueprint, we are now joined by a wonderful guest, Sam Mollei, who is here with us to talk to us about his book about how he got into this being a law firm entrepreneur, I think serial entrepreneur in the law firm faces the way to describe yourself. Please join me in welcoming Sam. Welcome, Sam.
I think we met you early on during the pandemic during your rise and and being blood you talk about funnels. And I know that’s a fraction of what you do overall. But you know, the thing that I think is resonate with both Jay and myself is somebody who thinks that much about automations, where it brings that much joy to them to be able to figure out how to take the least efficient pieces of practicing law and make them more efficient, is something that brings joy to our hearts. So love you to sort of share with the audience just bigger picture about the like, globally, what are the things that you do to bring efficiencies to law firms? Exactly. So let’s let’s tackle that to funnel because I think there’s a missing misconception when people hear about funnels and sales funnels, or Russell Brunson Clickfunnels. There’s always an association with these particular pages. Usually these like ugly looking pages with like, very flashy arrows, lot of this squeeze pages. For people who don’t know, they’re called squeeze pages are meant to bring you down to hammer you to buy something right now. Right. So that’s the perceived way that most people think about funnels, but there’s a lot more to it. And then I’m more interested in the science and the arts behind it, which it means which means there’s big overarching principles that anybody can apply to in any business, including lawyers and law firm owners that they could also apply these concepts to be able to take somebody who has problems and get them signed up as a client. And that when I say funnel, it’s those overarching ideas, not the particular pages that you see these ugly looking pages. So what are the overarching ideas? Honestly, the best way I could explain is like three parts in a funnel, the first thing you want to do is to get your clients, your prospects contact information upfront before you do anything else. Okay? So always get their name, their email. And that’s not revolutionary, right, James? Because for years, he’s building a list every time I say, why are you doing this? I’m building a list like right now, I don’t mean to interrupt you, but that list saved me during COVID No, I had 7000 people I could market to that hadn’t hired us. And we were able to form a whole pardons and expungement practice and people so that no, no, no, no understood. I can still make fun of you, but like, monetize, that thing is everybody knows this, but nobody everybody skips over it for some reason. No, you got to get their contact information and save it and do something with it. What do you do with it just email or beyond? You’re looking for cell phones as well as emails, what’s your minimum name and email? And ideally, phone number, phone number is a must. But if you get the telephone number, you better do something with it right away, which we’ll we’ll talk about. Second part of this system is you got to nurture you got to build a relationship with people. You can’t just get people to just come in and just buy from you. It doesn’t work that way.
It’s not reality. And how do you nurture practically speaking is just a video and a bunch of emails, it means right away when when they opt in, you get the confirmation, send them to a video, you don’t have to explain exactly what you do and how you can help them and what problem they have, and all the social proof on this stuff. Make one amazing, amazing video that you can use for many, many years that anybody who opts in, can see this video, they see that so that has been there, they get on a call, they’re already nurtured, they already know what you’re talking about already more likely to be able to sign up with you. And then the emails part is if they don’t take action, hey, those series of emails will fall, but then even weeks and months later. So that’s the second part. The third part is automation. This means whatever part that they haven’t taken action yet, create those emails, and those texts, that automatically gets them to take the next desired action. If you haven’t booked the call yet, go go to this page, watch the video, go back, go. Okay, now you booked a call? Well, let me show you the series of testimonials and case studies that we have. And once you set those three parts up, got their information, nurture them, and set up the automation. That’s what I mean by the funnel, how we you put that together is up to you. But that’s basically what a funnel is. So I’m smiling broadly. Because, look, Jay, we’ve been in this space for a long time. To me, this is almost like the modern version of the drip campaign, take the shock and awe package that people used to send them is very expensive. And instead turn it into an automated experience rather than a bunch of plastic crap that you don’t really want your house that comes days later, that may or may not tie it exactly automated and refined over time, once you have this funnel, you will to continuously refine this, instead of trying to do a lot of different things, I just have this one thing, I gotta focus on them. And then we make this the best thing. And the secret sauce is based on your client calls and mess in the words that they use. Those are the things you want to go put back into the funnel, literally those exact words in backhand straight emails back into videos. And the more you have to do that, and the more we refine it, and the more ultimately you think about what is the easiest, and best way that I could serve my clients answer the questions and get them to take action is ultimately going to be the best funnel for your clients. And that changes over time. And that’s the overarching ideas. You know, one of the things that really fascinates me about the rise of digital technology, and is that you can really allow the people out there to self select all throughout this process where they’re saying, they’re raising their hand saying, I want more information about this, I’m interested in scheduling something, I’m reading the emails because you can text open or test the open rates, and see what subject lines are getting opens and where people are clicking on the emails, how much of the email they’re reading, it’s really sort of fascinating that it is a science, it’s not something that you have to, you know, deal with outside marketers, you can say, Trust me on this, because you can actually turn around and look back at the numbers themselves and add things and divert people. And it’s really, it’s really a lot more technically advanced, really in marketing than ever before, don’t you think? Totally, totally and, and that the funnel is just one aspect of it. But more importantly is you have to traffic where your where your prospects are coming from. And that’s where you need to like blue shark and companies like that to bring you qualified people people to have those problems, to bring them to your funnel to query to you know, go to PA arm, I can follow up with them and do everything else. Well, I got to go from one. Do you use your own software use third party software? What do you what do you love for creating your funnels, click funnels. And it’s been like that from day one. And there’s a lot of good benefits from being in a click funnels. One is it’s just easy to set up that you can easily also share with each other and copy and you know, quickly get it up. Second is the community and the education that comes with a once you kind of fall into the Clickfunnels world and can expose you to other courses and things and people and conferences. And that is like I think the biggest part of like Click Funnels world. And the people like people that don’t know about Clickfunnels all sent to enter it they they read a book that it started learning about it and their eyes open up. And that’s like a start of a beautiful journey. And that was the journey that I basically started five years ago.
A little bit about your background, how you got into this yourself. Yeah, so basically, I worked for a little bit on an employment law firm for about six months. But I knew how to get out. And I knew to add basically how to create my own journey and my own. Basically Sturman law firm. So I started my law firm. And but I had no guidance, I had no idea how to do anything at all. So I had a lot of time on my hands. So I basically started reading a lot of books, and watching a lot of YouTube videos and clicking on every article and everything that I could get my hands on. And that’s when I basically got exposed to click funnels and funnels, started learning about SEO tamasak SEO, then I learned about a ton myself Google AdWords, and I basically taught myself I basically dwelled in into this whole world of online marketing. But the good news is always had something to apply to. I had my law firm upside down so as soon as I would look go learn something I would go crazy right away, learn about Google ads, oh, create a Google Ads campaigns and set that up right away. And I started seeing results from that and
My first kind of epiphany came was when I was on an Israel trip about six years ago. And I had one of these funnels set up. And the funnel was set up to basically get people to come from Google ads, to go through my funnel to go fill out an application to give me the answers that I need answered and get their payments all in one shot. Now it basically just turn on the Google ads campaign I would get and then I would get notifications throughout the day. Ding, ding, ding of people paying making payments, but I mean, needing to sit there and explain my servers, answer questions. So that you know, which would you were you sell what was the legal which this particular one is for was for getting an EIN number for non US citizens? So basically,
it’s something that you want to picture. Yeah, it was one pager. But I noticed at the time, there was no solution for this problem, just like one very simple one pager that you basically have to fill out correctly, and follow with the IRS start offering this service. And at one point, it was like 80% of my clients at one point in my law firm, but we’ve also in that volume, also got your review count up. Yeah, exactly. That helped a lot with that. And at the same time, like waiting minutes is so easy, I just have to bring in some traffic from Google ads, create a funnel for set up automations for them to go to the application and make the payments. So I basically duplicated this for another service for iTunes, and started duplicated over and over and over and over, it was literally as simple as copy and paste, right? The same emails, make some webinar videos, automated videos, and I basically had been to repeated the whole process over and over again, so yeah, no, no, no, no, but awesome, right? These were like, out of the box things. And I get that the funnels will work for anything theoretically, right? You know, some less good in that, like a criminal case has less time. But if you still have a video getting used to the lawyer, that’s all awesome. Are there orders of magnitude? When you have stuff that’s outside the box versus some of the more traditional areas? What have you learned? Because it’s one thing to sort of say, hey, look, nobody’s doing this? That’s going to be a wildly successful funnel versus family law in Albuquerque? How do you sort of tailor it? Is there a difference between a one off product versus something that’s more commoditized? So it’s a very good question. And I also had the same kind of questions. I’m like, okay, maybe I could see how this go work for transactional or for this particular thing. Or if there’s a lot more of these maybe makes sense. But I learned over time and through exposure to other people’s funnels, that we’re even outside of law.
That basically, funnel can be applied to anything and everything, it doesn’t matter, as long as there’s people to have problems, and you can solve it, that’s going to ultimately, you’re going to work your way until you get to building a funnel, because that’s going to be the best your best chance that you have to getting them signed up. So as much as much as I’m concerned, it could be applied these overarching kind of concepts that we talked about those three points, it doesn’t matter what it’s for, ultimately, there’s people that have problems, how do you get them set up as a client, that’s basically the way to do it. Second thing is, yeah, there are some practice types that are, you know, that are, give you a higher chance of succeeding with this, I’ll give you two one is a lot of people miss this, the value of the client really matters. So if you’re trying to build a funnel for something that’s $300, or even $1,000, you’re gonna have a hard time. Why because there’s a cost to getting this client, even if we know what you’re doing, it’s your cost is going to be anywhere from like $300 to $1,000, potentially, for you to get a client. If that’s the case, you better make sure that you have a high value for Klein that you get, and make sure that’s as high as possible. So, yeah, I think that’s something that a lot of lawyers don’t ever talk about. I mean, I’ll be honest, if I’m thinking about it now, I don’t think in the last six months on this show, we’ve talked about cost per acquisition cost per lead, you know, it’s something that we factor daily, we’re looking at, I know, you are definitely in my office, it’s I know, Sam, but a lot of lawyers are just like, I don’t know what it costs. And it’s interesting to me, and I’ll just make this point, and then I’ll and then I’ll shut up again, I hear a lot of personal injury lawyers who are like, well, you know, I got that case referred into me. So there was zero cost per acquisition. And I say, you’re giving away a third of the fee. That’s a lot of that. And you say that, but what about the branding? We talked about, you know, the stuff that you’re doing, the time you’re doing, I mean, that that third is ROI on your relationship? I mean, the person development, get back to Sam.
So high value, whatever that is, my head man is like, I want minimum 3k If not, timeout, but you just did this ein thing that couldn’t have been 3k. And that’s why it I basically stopped it because, you know, and it showed me concept, but it wasn’t. We did it did it did pretty well for like four or five years. It did pretty well. Sure. But then what was the cost of your EIN product? Basically, like 150 bucks to make like, but I guess to my original point there, what the cost of media was so cheap, because nobody was fighting for those clicks, right? For sure, for sure. And at that time, it was also optimized. So anybody who would try to insert the space that was already had a lot more, you know, optimized funnel and system to be able to get it at a lower cost than them but But anyways, but what is the point is
is, you know, make sure that it’s, you know, higher value. And the third thing is, is don’t limit the geographical location also matters. These days,
the geographic location that you can serve really matters, it’s and it’s like business one on one, make sure that you can charge high and make sure you have a bigger, you know, bigger, the pool to fish from. So, you know, if you’re just serving your city, practically speaking, it’s going to be very hard for you to have a long sustainable, you know, business that’s going to consistently bring your client. So I have a question. I’ll challenge you on that. And it’s obviously more successful. Right? So immigration lawyers have hit big on tick tock, because anybody in the country if not the world, could be a client get it. But the when you’re a pie lawyer, or criminal, or the cost of the case, the the value of the cases is so high, that you’re already doing media to bring people in? Why would like? Yes, it’s not as successful because it’s more expensive. But like, is it the same principle at play for a smaller geography? You’re right, you’re right. And I guess it depends on your competition? And what who’s in your city? If you’re, if you’re a big person in a small city, then you probably do well. I’m just general general, kind of overarching. Easier if it’s a national play, which is why the course creators give this space. I don’t say a bad name, but you could use it as I heard. The, The Wolf of Wall Street guy, you know, yeah, he was saying you could use this for good or for bad, you get people in a funnel, you could sell them nonsense, you could sell them value.
For sure. But I think the point is I’m trying to drive in is at least the minimum, if you can serve your state, that should be where you should be shooting for. And then you’re like, Well, maybe what? There are ways for you to somehow extend the state building referral relationship. You could also be multi state, but I just mentioned something you’d like by hiring a up lawyer. You know, you’d be lawyers and referral networks and things like that. Ideally, state, will the state, if not federal, usually give you a higher chance. But that doesn’t mean yes, but I’ll challenge what’s back, which is okay, so let’s say you’re in criminal PII family, where it’s state specific stuff, yes, PII is easier to refer out, the other ones are harder to refer out meaningfully. monetizable. But if you’re spending media nationally to create the funnel, unless that media is really cheap, you know, if it’s, you know, that’s that’s becomes the part of the issue, right? So what is the cost of getting into the funnel? So if you have something that doesn’t have a lot of competition, and you’re sort of first to market, great, but so the average PII lawyer, let’s say, The clicks are going at like 90 bucks. Plus, what do you do to get that media cheap enough so that you can play it because if you’re going to refer out there’s breakage, there’s a ninth of the case, yada yada that you’re dealing with? At that point, I focus on different traffic sources like Facebook ads, tick tock ads, and YouTube ads. Right. So you’ve been where it’s really I love I love YouTube pre roll ads. I can’t talk enough about them. They’re so cheap. I mean, I am. Don’t tell them.
Yeah.
Don’t use YouTube.
You’re not doing traditional media, you’re going outside the box and finding whatever is cheapest. If YouTube got expensive, God forbid, you’re a tick tock, tick tock got shut down your Instagram. I don’t think about cheapest, I just has to be profitable, but understood what you’re doing a national play, and you really can only monetize one area well, and the rest of it not as well. It better be pretty inexpensive. From you know, I would think what challenges what do you think? If you’re doing federal, I don’t think you should have any problem generating clients these days. So that’s, that’s a given that, yeah, even states, if not what you’re doing, you should not nobody have any issues generating clients for your state, if you, if you if you haven’t got to that level, then maybe we should be partnering up or work or working with the company that could get you there, because there’s no excuses anymore these days.
With Pay Per Click costs, you know, $100 plus per click, we’re talking, you know, I mean, I hate to say it, but you know, fractions of a penny for some views on on some of these platforms. So you can just get economies of scale and see so many more people and hammer them with your message to get them into your funnel that you’re necessarily even need to vote with a paid click round. But you don’t have
to get the ball. Well, let me ask that. Taking your question, Jay, and bring it back to Sam is have you successfully done this with a traditional paid click pay pay per click campaign versus stuff like YouTube and and talking excetera?
My traditional is starts with Facebook. That’s my that’s my definition of traditional. And I like those Facebook ads, YouTube ads and Tiktok ads. For me again, I’m not are
you just buying cheap meat? Are you are you targeting these ads? Or are you used to the population?
I’ll just say that these days 80% of it is the creative, maybe 10% of is the targeting targeting really matters very little. By the time we were According this so yeah,
I think that’s partially because the the algorithms are so good that they figure out what you’re doing or now,
these days, I mean, specifically talking about Facebook, because because of the iOS update, and the whole beef between Google and Facebook, that basically, Facebook a lot has lost its power of targeting. But over time, Facebook got so smart that you basically didn’t even have to give a targeting. When I, you know, when I started running tests, and a couple of my media buying friends started running tests, we started just targeting broad, and we just targeted based on geographic and just the age and no other targeting. And that always gave us the lowest cost per lead. Why? Because Facebook has sitting on so much data, that it doesn’t matter, based on targeting that this Mondriaan sitting on that data. And they still use that to go to put it in the right people in front of the right people. So yeah, targeting is not a concern. It just comes down to the test of how many, how many angles, can you take on different ads, and do not over and over and do that on a weekly basis. And being very, very smart about it and have some law firms that have like, I’ve tested out 800 different ads. But once I find that one, particularly one, that pub one, one, that one ad gets me to lower cost per lead and cost position, you know, much lower than 9% of the other ads. So I’m just trying to find that top one, find it, run with it for as long as I can until other people come and figure out what I’m doing. And you know, if I replicate it.
So we talked sort of before the show that click funnels are really a fraction of what you you’re passionate to do automation. Talk to me a little bit what what is the what are your passions in this space beyond?
Because you wrote a book about it your law firm automation? So let’s talk about that. Because I think it’s important.
Yeah, so a lot of people, a lot of lawyers feel like there’s they’re kind of the law firm runs them. And when my first time when I basically hit the law firm that could basically run on its own, it was very empowering. And I created this cool this thing that could basically work itself and grow also by itself, without me needing to get involved. That’s the true power is just very empowering. Why would you want to do that, because it gives you that you could take that time and create more of these systems are taken on to the end of the level, or do passion projects and teach and do whatever you want. Anybody has like different things. So that’s the reason why. And I learned over time is that essentially, the light at the end at all, is everything can be automated. And people that say that it can be just haven’t figured out yet how it could be. But the mindset is, everything could be automated, it’s little by little progression. And these are all things that Jay is amazing at it because you know, he shares this little systems and things you just have to put those pieces together. And essentially, the whole idea behind systems is when this happens go automatically to the do this. And that’s either done by tools, or what I use virtual assistants, those those are like what you know, is what connects the pieces together. So I basically threw out a couple of different cool, snazzy ways to be able to automate things, including, you know, how to automatically ask for reviews, which I’ve been able to automate that to collect over 3000 Also, I’ve been able to automate my email inbox I don’t these days and I literally answering emails less than 20 minutes a week. Sounds absurd, by the way, had randomly I don’t know by luck withdraw when you guys emailed me this morning. I’m like I just having to see it. I’m like, but anyways, so my entire I don’t answer emails. I don’t follow up with people that’s automatically
gonna ask you questions, so that we smarting we emailed you just confirming time for show. Now it was like a pure luck. What would have happened if you had not wasn’t luck? What would normally your course be if you’re automating emails,
if it’s already, it’s set up in a way where I have my team that’s knows the big picture, I meet with them to understand the big picture and they have a role to go get that big objective done. So let’s just
say what would your team have seen and said, Okay, I’m asking confirm, it’s on the calendar.
It’s, yeah, just like you guys have set up because, you know, give them access to have roles. You give them access, they they’re in charge of that, and particularly emails coming from particular people goes to their attention. So they be able to, you know, deal with those things right away. So yeah, they would have probably updated the calendar or worse comes to worse, they now have different layers of communication, we have slack, but now like the ones that that really need my immediate attention, like emergency things that just like they text me on my cell, so that probably would have probably texted me, Hey, by the way, your thing got updated or whatever. But the big picture is a lot of those things can be automated. And that’s basically virtual law firm secrets kind of gives you those, you know, practical ways to be able to automate those pieces and pieces. And it’s all practical. That’s the best part is that because
top two or three things that you you’re most excited about
emails, because it’s the one that I think most people struggle with the most. I was also again in that world for like three years when the funnel stuff was working. I funneled people in through my emails because I didn’t I didn’t have time to talk to everybody on the phone. So I was like, I could answer, you know, 40 emails in 30 minutes versus talk to one person for 30 minutes. So I followed everybody through emails, but now stuck sitting there answering emails from like, literally from eight in the morning, all throughout the entire day. And I was making I was doing pretty well, I think I was at this, I was making like 30 40k a month, but I was still asleep, just sitting there answering emails, and I’m like, This is not sustainable. Like I didn’t sign up for this. I don’t want to do this forever. And out of desperation, I basically figure out, hey, I could use basically Text Expander tools, and a tool called Max Max that automatically could send emails and follow up emails for me inside of my Gmail. So I basically created a structure using Gmail at Gmail, I created labels, as kind of like a way to create different departments or organization out of the different types of emails, then I created Gmail rules, based on what the emails, certain words that the email contain, or if the email is coming from certain people that are that are built over time. And those emails are automatically labeled. And then have different VAs who are in charge of those different divisions that use different mix Mac’s templates and sequences to automatically send respond back to emails and automatically, you know, send follow up emails, which makes next day takes care of that. And that was like the vision and I can tell you, I’m like three, four years in into this building the system, and I don’t answer 98% of my emails, I only answered about 2% of my emails that are labeled to my attention. And those are just the most important ones. And just an even that, I got to a level of basically, where I took my highest, my highest paying VA, which is my best VA food, who knows about the big picture, who can also go through one brand of those emails first, and then maybe whatever is leftover, then I get involved every couple of days.
And so awesome. That’s really, that’s really, so lovely email hack. What else? What else want to share
reviews, collecting Google reviews? You know, I’ll leave that little secret sauce in the book. But there’s a very specific script that I use, which is a very certain way to ask. And a lot of people you know, there’s a lot of sources and books out there. I don’t know why nobody’s like tapping into this. Just a quick way of asking. And I kind of figured out this formula from there when I learned about how people were asking for link building and sent set through appreciate this. So there was a certain way I think, I don’t know if it was the Neil Patel’s blog, the topbar, how to ask for, for links. And whenever you’re doing SEO, and from that, I basically applied it to asking for reviews. And when I started when I switched over to this particular way, and also connecting Max Max to it automatically sends, you know, the forms for me. That’s when I started having a much higher conversion rate of the people that would actually leave me reviews. So that’s the
follow up is the key. I said, yeah, the follow up is the key. And I’m amazed I’ve literally taken family friends cases for nothing gotten remarkable results that have saved people’s lives and reviewed ever appears. It’s unbelievable. They don’t mean they want to do it, they tend to do when they tell them to do it. But it’s like unless you’re constantly. So the idea. I love Max Max, it’s a great, great overlay for Gmail. That that is awesome. Okay, so you gotta buy the book to get that awesome. Well, to wrap this up, what is your your third sort of productivity hack that you love.
And another thing too, that I use a lot is Zapier, which is more on the advanced side. And it’s not something that anybody needs to get into, but just know that this thing exists. And you can just get somebody to set this up for you. You know, that’s key
this audience, I think there have been, you know, within the greater community that we’re in that that is a, you know, that that is something that is leveraged. The question is, you know, using it to its fullest, I assume that like most people, you scratch the surface of what’s possible is probably what I’m trying to get between the lines from you.
Yeah. And I’ve pretty much been able to use Zapier on a grand scale. I’m three weeks into my monthly plan and run out of 104,000 automations. So I’m gonna get to around 120,000 automations per month. Yeah, that’s a lot. That’s because, you know, there’s a lot going on, it’s a lot of leads being handled a certain way and follow ups and things like that. It’s just, essentially, it’s a way to connect data coming in either leads, or clients. Now, what do we really want to do with that? Well, if it’s leads, I want to, you know, notify our people automatically, you know, set up text automations, and email automations, add it to our CRM, things like that. And if it’s clients, okay, if they when they signed DocuSign, what should happen next, you know, it’s added to our hub, you know, to our, you know, CRM or, you know, take the process forward that way. And that’s all it is, like, you know, I’m kind of like, the orchestrator behind the big picture. And, you know, have the right people, you know, in charge of different divisions and I set it up, and then hand it off, go, you’re in charge of this. So do
you have somebody and you have a Zapier, VA, that that’s their job, like, is that something that that you say, you know, as you grow as you scale, you know, that’s one of the things that we’ve talked about on the show is being understaffed. And the great thing about remote workers in this in this day and age is that you can find people that may be Get 10 hours a week from that that’s their sole job for you. Is this one thing in working on your tech? And so I’m assuming that you have people that that is their role in your organization is just this nothing else. We’re not hiring a remote person who’s going to be a jack of all trades, answer the phones intake, also file your pleadings for you, etcetera. But you’re you’re being a sniper and you’re picking out this is a skill set I need to fill. I’m filling them with this role for X amount of hours and then I could always increase as needed. Sam, right.
Totally. Yeah, this particular Zapier one, I set it up because I want to send a big picture and but that’s but
what is your question? Do you where do you turn for people that are like Zapier friendly? You need you want? Like, is this something you can go to fi to, to to, you know, a fiver and find the Zapier people or is it something you really need to grow?
I use Upwork for most of my ongoing hires, if it’s a one off one thing, I need a creative Fiverr if not always Upwork. So that’s my we buddies.
Is that something that is like how much of this is inside of your head versus no, the basic automations
This is the Seth and Jay fight, because I’m always saying, I’m just going to figure out, learn it, do it myself. It says like, just hire somebody to do it. So he needs to know where to find somebody. And I’m like, I’m gonna dive into Zapier this weekend.
And I would say let that’s that’s probably Jays superpower. So let him focus on his superpower. But that also means you shouldn’t be doing anything else outside of this technical departments. He’s probably the CTO as much as I’m concerned.
He’s the only guy who has his own software like he does stuff Jays way. It’s awesome.
But that’s ultimately what he’s best at. And what he enjoys doing selenium,
I would challenge the best step. But I would say he enjoys doing it. So it gets him through the day.
But the bigger point that Jamie made is I don’t have any jack of all trades. Everything I have is specialized. And the way that I have it is in Slack. It’s my ongoing people. And then I have a bunch of people that I’m dating in Skype. And I have this one I have a repertoire, anything that I need. I just like Skype has already hired them, and I’ll work and then I’ll working if they’re not working, then he’s not charging me if it’s not working for me. But if I need something, why do we just message in Skype, wake up the next morning, it’s already done. So no, overtime build out this, I guess this portfolio of, of people that I could tap into,
ya know, for me, you know, even with with firm flex, we’re actually building a funnel for a new product that we launched. And we actually went to went to Upwork and found somebody to specialize in that one thing, and we’re using them for this one project, and then we’re done. And then I can go back to lead if I if I find that I need it. But it’s a very specific toolset, I needed to have an eye, I think of Fiverr as the amateur version of Upwork. Basically, of what you’re going to pay more Fiverr if it’s something that I needed.
I was I was just I get
to explain it for people that are out there. Gotcha. You know, some people who are listening the show might I mean, I remember when Alper was freelance, right, I started using him back before
they were Upwork. Yeah, well, you get to two iterations before that.
Yeah, it was Elance or freelancer or Elance. So
Danny, ourselves, Sam, sorry about
that. Yeah. Do you mind? I’m gonna turn the back back the table on you guys, because I know you guys are focused on value. I know, Jeff, I see your posts all the time. And Seth and I remember your name from like, six years ago, when I started out. For the people that have been watching and listening to you guys, what’s the one advice that you want to give them to get them to take action to get them to the next level?
Oh, just in general, just in general, when it comes to, you know, obviously their law firm growth.
Wow. I mean, that’s, we have an entire show about it. So I but why do you think top of mind one thing top of mind, I would say for the average person because I deal with this all the time when there is a lawyer. And you’re trying to figure out if you want to grow until you have somebody other than you, whether it be an admin, an ops person, a COO, that whole continuum, until there’s somebody other than you, it’s a profession, not a business, and that that’s one of those first key things that will get you to the next level where somebody else taking care of everything that you don’t have to do.
For me, I think that one of the things that you can do as a solo is small firm that really you miss out on the opera, lots of great opportunities. And I think it dovetails nicely with your use of automation is using automation to stay in contact with your referral sources, because I have found a lot of lawyers neglect their referral sources. And that is a missed opportunity. And so for us, we went so far as to we created an automation to send out thank you cards when cases come in. And lawyers who refer us business get tagged as the referring lawyer on a file. So we’re using an API from A company called handwritten to be able to generate those notes. We’re doing things like automating gifts that go out at certain points in the process using API’s, and Zapier is when we can’t use an API. So we’re what I’m saying is, a lot of people in this market in that are saying, I’m going all in on digital marketing, but I think you need to segregate some period of time to actually get systems in place for your offline relationship building. Because there’s a lot of money that’s on the table.
You know, so Sam, part of our show is just just us disagree. And I would say j that may or may not work for others, your J. And people love you know, but I think, because I keep in contact with him, I agree. But that’s your DNA as much as you may saying an introvert you don’t like going to conferences and seeing people, you still are this force of nature that you scale both some in person when you still like to go on the road, as well as now that your curmudgeon, you know, on the on the T ball field, but I to me, I think that like if I look at Sam, he’s living proof that that’s not necessarily the case, in that if you just if you did nothing else, but worked on your automations? Would you do better? That’s the thought question, I have an answer to it, would you do more and that’s always the back and forth. Like you have a case study as to where that made, you’d say no interpersonal better, but generally, for the average I’m
saying is take the automation to the interpersonal to relieve some of the burden on you every day, where you don’t have to be the one executing the contact with people. But you’re still able to feel like there is that relationship growing.
And the interesting part, Sam, that come that this comes from is the discussion we’ve had is should your associates as you scale? Should they be developing business or doing it themselves? So yes, these things work. But if you’re not a superstar like Jaden, but most of our audience are superstars where this would work where the automation of your relationship building is there. But is it scalable, as you scale your firm beyond you
know, and the reason is, everybody has superpowers and what they’re good at. And I want people to find out exactly what that is and tripled down on it. And everything else delegated to other person, that would be J server hours, this and you found this leverage, and I want you to triple down on it and make a course about it and help as many people as you can. That’s an
you know, it’s funny, sad that you bring this up. Before we shot this, I was at my video studio because we built a video studio for my office. And I decided I put together a like a 30 minute how to be a better presenter to groups for lawyers that will eventually show here in the law firm blueprint to give it away. But people didn’t give me their emails, access for a limit.
On those words of prophetic words to conclude on that was that’s awesome.
Really, Sam? Sam, thank you so much for being with us. I advise everybody, if you haven’t picked up the book already, make sure that you get it. It’s available on Amazon, I got mine, I
amazing and can be also put it out to the universe that we’re going to meet each other and have some drinks and kind of person because yeah.
I’ll get to a seminar one of these.
I’ll just say this. This December in Jerusalem. I’ll see you there. Sandhu.
I love that. Actually, we’re just a couple of months ago. We were already thinking about that next one in July, I think will be the in July.
We’ll be there December.
All right. So that’s gonna do it for us here in the law firm blueprint. Thank you, Sam, for being with us. We’ll be right back. To wrap up the show. We’ll be right back. Well said, I don’t know what to say. I thought that was really fun. You know, it’s cool to talk to someone like Sam, who is pushing the envelope. Two weeks ago, we had a show where we were talking about getting out of your office, getting out of your headspace looking at things from a new perspective. And I think Sam brings that to this conversation today that there are things that you can revolutionize change up do differently. If you just think about them a little differently. What were your takeaway? No, absolutely.
You know, it’s like pushing everything one step further, right. It’s not like this is day one we have. We are all capturing people’s information, but what are we doing with it? And the idea that you’re going to send something of huge value to people may happen for a while breaks down. I see this, you know, for years in the DUI space. People sent very expensive letters when people have been arrested if there’s a way to sort of be able to keep that communication going. We see it you land on vacation in Hawaii and Next thing, you know, the whalewatching people are constantly at you in there and they’re bringing you down, God forbid you actually reach out and have an interest. You know, they’re not letting up until you’re until you’ve either said, I’m not going on your trip, and I’ve left the state or you sign up. So, you know, I think it’s great. I think that each piece like this inspires you to push yourself further. I know you’re naturally like this. You know, you love tinkering with stuff. But it’s just cool to see somebody who’s done it from moment one, before he put infrastructure in place.
Yeah, you know, it’s really interesting to me, and you made a little mention about being on the T ball fields. And I want to talk to everybody, just so the anecdote will take about a minute or so, you know, my son’s been playing on the same travel baseball team now for three seasons. And we had tryouts this past weekend. And we showed up, but there’s some questions as the whether or not the team has enough players to be able to stick around because some kids have moved away. Now that COVID is over. And so he actually tried out for another program. And boy, when you’re used to doing something one way, when you see how other people do it, you could be really impressed with how other places. And so this other program, they held a different type of tryout, it blew my mind very professional there, you know, and I gotta tell you, we’re now moving on to a whole different program. And I wasn’t looking to leave. But we it was just a, why don’t we see what our options are? And I was blown away. And I was saying, Why aren’t my old people doing this?
I could look I just had a life moment. So Mike, my call before this is with a long lost college buddy. Genius. You knew he was ahead of the curve. He’s taken on the real estate industry. He’s taken on the software industry. He’s now taking off the out the the outsourcing industry, the guys, and we’ll we’ll do a show just talking about this. Now we’ll get them on this guy is so far ahead of the curve, what we’re talking about now, in the last two years, he’s been doing for 10 years first for himself. And then otherwise, he has his own the equivalent of 15, five, already built into his saw meaning like it is just when you see these things, and you’re like, oh, shit, this guy’s is doing these things. I think it pushes you because
like, checkers, he’s playing chess, exactly. But
the idea being that it just means you have to be one step better. Just take two or three steps, add some automations. What are you doing? You’re paying this money on pay per click? What is happening with the with the piece? Can you instead of just sending an email, get a video out? You know, those basic things, each piece incrementally making yourself better?
You know, it’s funny, I thought of years ago of, you know, instead of 70 Jail mail, which is letters out to people who’ve been arrested, if I could send them an email with a link to a video and get better return, then I was like, Well, what if I record, you know, the top 501st names and then quickly edited together. So my video appeared to be customized. These are the kinds of things that goes by and I’m well aware I’ve known you for long enough. To vault there are 75 videos for the top most popular names.
They actually do exist. Yeah, they do exist. You know, I’m sorry to say, but I did you know, we cut one two minute video. And then I have Hi, I’m Jay. Hi, John. I’m Jay. Hi, Paul. I’m Jay. Hi, Chris. I’m Jay. You know, and we just as opposed to whatever it is now. Hey, right, exactly.
Hey, this is Jay I’m hearing right now. I’m
like, nobody wants to cares if it’s about them, particularly. But it’s uh, you know, these are the types of things that we have to think about. The tech is out there. This was a great show says I know I got a lot out of it. I’m looking forward to
it just inspires because we look you this comes naturally to you. And you know, there have been, you know, different hackathons and you know, Zappa fans and things like that, to me, I’ve outsourced it and you could see that this guy loves it. And when you love something, the power of what you do with it is incredible.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So listen, this is gonna do it for us. Here, let’s just set this week on the law firm, bluesy, we’re live, folks, there’s no editing when this stuff goes on. We’re going to, we’re going to edit this week, just so you guys know, next week is Thanksgiving, we are very thankful that you’ve been with us on this journey, especially taking it from macros lives in our law firm blueprint, our group is going if you have friends that you want to invite into the law firm blueprint, please do. So please share our podcast with as many people as you can always give us a five star review. And tune in every Thursday, except next Thursday, because we’ll be in Turkey. And we’ll be off for next Thursday. But thank you so much for being with us. We are thankful for you, Seth and I both really appreciate you being part of our audience and giving us a chance to do the stuff that we love, and we hope we’re bringing value to you. So thank you so much and bye from the law firm blueprint bye for now. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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