Join Seth and Jay as they discuss owners taking vacations and getting jealousy from staff and how to deal with unprofitable lawyers who can’t recognize all the costs that go into their job yet demand raises in this economy . . .
Hello, Hello and Happy New Year from the law firm blueprint. I want to your host Jay Ruane CEO of the criminal mastermind and that guy over there, who's not in the Delmarva Peninsula. One of our listeners reached out to me and said, you know, you're in the DMV, not in the Delmarva Peninsula. I didn't even know those things were different. You know, my, my geography, education and capital school in fourth grade here in Connecticut, basically just said, that's all down there. Listen, let me tell you, as far as I'm concerned, there is East Coast, West Coast. And if you are not a state touching a coastline, you aren't what I call the Midwest. So everything from Pennsylvania to I don't know Nevada, that falls under Midwest for me, so. But anyway, I equate you sang Delmarva Peninsula over the last weeks to the scene from animal house where he says it over when the Germans don't worry about He's on a roll. So I've given you some leeway with cheese on a roll. I don't stop them. Alright, so sad, happy New Year, how's your week going? How's your year going? It's good look, it was it was neat to get away spent some time in Israel with the family, which is a cool experience, but certainly not a vacation. It's you know, seven, eight miles of walking the day it's, you know, emotionally taxing your, your people wandering the desert for 100 hours, right?
Walk seven miles a day,
I hear you, I don't think I would have baited my kids would do the soft. But the it was, it was a great experience. But it puts a lot of life in perspective, when you see like the you know, when you realize, you know, you're seeing stuff from 1000s and 1000s of years ago and the layers of history and how people came in just wiped out what was there maybe a metaphor for the some of the stuff we deal with on a daily basis. You know, are we you know, are we taxi drivers with Uber coming? Or are we the the people that are there for a number of years and you know, its history is written by the victor so to speak. Well, you
know, you bring up a really good point and why don't we start off the show talking a little bit about it because I you know, obviously we're connected on social I saw some of your social posts while you're away. I didn't post so much. My my vacation, I took the kids into the city for school see stomp before it closed. And then this past weekend, I was lucky enough to spend the weekend and New Year's Eve with Ryan McKean his wife and kids, and my wife and kids my in laws at Kalahari doing the waterpark thing, New Year's Eve thing, and it was awesome. It was great. You know, it's a wonderful time to do something like that with a referral partner. It deepens the bonds between our two firms. But I didn't post a lot on social media about it, you posted a lot more. And that leads me to the question about, you know, I didn't post because, you know, my people were still working, and I was away on this vacation. And that's something that could run either way. What are your thoughts about you know,
it's something I struggle with a lot, something I've talked to you about in the past. You know, we my wife would like to be able to post this sort of as a moving scrapbook, much of what we do, and I sort of made an exception code Israel special enough and enough of a experience that somebody else would see something that might be meaningful to them as far as through somebody else's eyes. Whether or not I'm right or not, but I have struggled before about posting, you know, everybody takes vacation. The question is, you know, as a leader, if you are on vacation, and they're in the office, is there a resentment factor? I see a number of leaders on social and using Facebook for us or middle aged compatriots, as sort of the record of choice, discussing expensive cars or private jets or first class travel? Does, you know, are you making a statement? Are there negative repercussions that you may not think about? Or is it as one of my friends and mentors talks about like owning it if you're successful, showing that I'm not fully comfortable with that it's to a large extent, at the it's something I struggle with a lot, something I've talked to you about in the past. You know, we my wife would like to be able to post this sort of as a moving scrapbook, much of what we do, and I sort of made an exception code Israel special enough and enough of a experience that somebody else would see something that might be meaningful to them as far as through somebody else's eyes. Whether or not I'm right or not, but I have struggled before about posting, you know, everybody takes vacation. The question is, you know, as a leader, if you are on vacation, and they're in the office, is there a resentment factor? I see a number of leaders on social and using Facebook for us or middle aged compatriots, as sort of the record of choice, discussing expensive cars or private jets or first class travel? Does, you know, are you making a statement? Are there negative repercussions that you may not think about? Or is it as one of my friends and mentors talks about like owning it if you're successful, showing that I'm not fully comfortable with that it's to a large extent, at the same time, I sort of make an exception for family pieces, because there are so many interactive connecting pieces that people seem it seems to resonate, but I you know, on a before business, I always have an issue with social that you're creating this aura that life is perfect. What they don't see is the kid melting down before the photo was taken. See, that's what
I post a lot of. I posted my kid who's drive I post a famous post that got a lot of engagement. It was my my while he's nine now but I think he was four at the time. He was crying because I wouldn't let him eat a piece of pizza off the floor of a bowling alley. Yeah,
look, Dad doesn't walk. Yeah. Nobody eats so look. So in one sense, there's the social media just in general, are you putting out something and that's The real issue if I had my way, we'd have a keeping it real Thursday, where you had to put good stuff probably would prevent our kids from getting into college or getting a decent job. But leaving that out there, what's real? What are the real strains in marriage and Kid racing that are out there? On the one hand, on the other hand, it's a question of like, is there what's the difference between sharing and bragging? And can you can you figure out that line and adding to it, you know, are you How do employees view it? Do they feel like they're along for the ride and it to share? Or do they say, is there a resentment? Or is it you can't tell them? Whatever? You're damned if you do damned if you don't? So it doesn't really matter? What are your thoughts? Well, you
know, it's interesting, and it's something that that I think we talked about on one of our earliest shows, which was, this is the first episode of season five, right? So we're, we're going we're going back to one of our earliest shows, and one of my employees no longer with us, actually, had remarked in a, in a meeting, I see how much money you're making off of my work, and I don't, why am I not making more. And I literally broke down the numbers. This is what you're making off of the work that you're doing, because this goes to your benefits, this goes to your sports staff. And at the end of the day, I think we were running at like 17 and a half percent profit margin, which is not particularly impressive. No, it wasn't, I mean, obviously, we, you know, we were doing that for a particular reason. But this particular lawyer at when all of a sudden done was was generating a 17 and a half percent profit. And, and they said, well, the business is making more than that. I said, Well, yeah, other people are much more profitable, you happen to not be, but you're not because we are slowly bringing you into certain things, you feel like you're doing a lot, now, you're really only doing about 60% of what you should be able to handle on your own, because we've been ramping you up. And, and there was a complaint that, you know, I should be making more, given all the files that I'm handling. And the relationship showers soured for a number of reasons, then they left and they're in government work now. So that you know that they don't have to worry about generating any business. But it was, it was eye opening to me. Because, you know, while I tried to make this a inclusive place, and I try to make this a great place to work for everybody, you know, there are always going to be some people who resent that somebody has something better. That'd be fair,
we're not going to we don't want to aim our sensibilities to the person you don't want who's not right. If they went to the government, they're clearly not right for you. Nobody, your firm Jay Wayne, innovative growing law firm and goes to the government. That's so to me, if I'm going to look at data points, I want to look at the people that I want to keep, and how does it work with their sensibilities, and it becomes a touch point where there's some greater depth of connection, what I don't want to see is, is where is that line? And will people that are part of your core have a resentment factor? It definitely something you know, I see it now with social within social circles, that what used to be somebody's friendship groups, you know, moved apart, now is back in your face, because you see everything that people do for those that post, and that I've seen stuff within my own family's personal local ecosystem, where people have done some really bizarre things. And normally, it will just be like, Oh, they're going off. You people come into your lives, and they leave your lives. This was an instance where they somebody did that in an odd way. But then you repeatedly would see that over and over again, reinforcing that piece. And with a definite negative, more negative rates, never you know, it with a particularly pointed repercussion, which is reminding somebody of that bad behavior over and over again.
Yeah, you know, it's interesting to me. When I started out on this journey, I know you did as well. There wasn't social media number one. So you were really sort of judging yourself by the amount of work that you put in and not by what your, I guess you call and competitors, or colleagues were also doing. We didn't really have we didn't know what was going on inside other law firms. And people weren't posting about their revenue and how many new files they open, and that type of thing. And so I was, you know, I can remember being, you know, 30 years old, you know, decades ago and sitting down and being like, I wonder how other firms are doing it and just be like, well, this is what I'm gonna do, and just keeping my head down and working and now, you know, my grandfather used to say the empty cans rattle rattle the loudest, you know, now you see people and you see them posting and you're thinking What if they're posting this much? When are they actually working on the firm? You know? And are they even happy? You know, that's another adages that you see is that the, you know, the couples that post about how happy they are in their relationships are the ones that get divorced a year later. But the ones who never post about their relationships are doing just fine. So it's, it's, it's a challenge, I think, in this day and age, so much of what we do is out there in our personal lives, in our professional lives, on LinkedIn, on on Facebook, on Instagram, that you almost have to sort of, you know, cut yourself off from it. Or at least don't judge yourself by what other people are doing on those platforms and just use it as a way to, to keep in contact with people.
Right. But I guess the flip side is part of the ways to keep in contact with people is to let them know what you're doing, that there's a talking point and a connectivity. You and I get people posted a fairly decent amount of people that post more clearly. But what I find is that people, you know, know what's going on. That's what I love about social, what I love about it is that you can keep connectivities and you know, I'm a people person, I love keeping these connections, and it allows me to keep connections that I couldn't otherwise, yeah, and that's the beautiful thing about social is that people you haven't seen forever have a sense of what's going on in your life. And you can, you know, at a level that you did a mortal could not stay in touch with people in a way that I really enjoy. And that brings some joy, that, you know, for the guy likes to sit at home, and you know that you clearly aren't driven by that same piece. But it's when you do that, you know, what, what is there? And is that, you know, do you need to be cognizant of the flip side, because of that, we're talking about, like sharing vacation photos, there's another level, which is, are we supposed to as business owners demonstrate success in a way with material spending? It's not my style, right? I mean, people don't know me, but like, if I if I go a trip, and you see this awesome trip, it's likely miles that had been saved for two years or three years, in order to do something. You know, it's the the idea is, is there, you know, what, what are your thoughts on displaying success for having people looking at you as that success story, you know, versus being modest, and people think whatever they think,
Well, I mean, I think, you know, for my own perspective, I tried to be down to earth as down to earth as possible. We are, we aren't profligate spenders in my family. But we do take nice trips, when we get the opportunity to my wife will post more on social than I will, she has heard some comments from our neighbors, you know, must be nice to be able to drop everything and go there. But, you know, in reality, like you said, you know, we're I haven't paid for a hotel room in like, three years, at least. Well, what, probably before COVID I know, I haven't paid for a hotel since before COVID. Because it is it's all smiles. I mean, it's one of the it's one of the very, very few benefits of being leveraged and extended with risk that you and I have, and a lot of people in our audience have is that we're able to, you know, it's funny, I was just, you know, I engaged John and Kate from fireproof. And we're figuring out how we're going to pay them this year. And I said, Well, is there a way that I can turn that into getting miles to get a free flight out of it, you know, that type of thing, rather than just an ACH payment. When I don't get it,
we probably do an entire show on it. I'm curious, I've sort of as a 20, something I was really into my late a few, you know, before credit cards with a big piece, I had some jobs that had me travel, and I really took advantage of them and and play the game. Now it's a new world of credit cards are the majority of pupils earning potential. And especially with online advertising or offline advertising, there's a lot that can be spent and they're multipliers. And it's a whole world of people out there that sort of play that game. I've sort of it's the almost an entire episode, potentially, because one is just doing it right. It's a nice way to save things and be able to travel. But the other question is, can it take can you go too far, where you'd be better off from day one, just doing a Cashback Card and putting the money in the bank and using it. The question is, would you and that's what I find so, so interesting about how we think about money, how we spend money, etc. Yeah,
I mean, for me, it's, you know, it's not necessarily even getting the flight or the room for free or for a discount. It's getting into things like the Centurion lounge that's opening those doors is what really matters to me. And and so it's nice having those times. I mean, I'm sitting on right now I'm sitting on a million, no more than a million. I think I'm up to like 1.6 million Amex miles. And I got to figure out what to do with them.
And that's all So it's so funny, whether it's the law firm, or there's blue shark, a lot of times people come to say, Hey, we should have a cash discount or something like that, you know, or charge extra every few years, someone comes to charge a charge extra for a credit card fee. Because, you know, look at blue shark, I'd argue that we were probably about 2.7, hard costs in as a client meeting, everybody's using a reward card, the numbers that are not. And so it's a very expensive proposition. But i j ruin factor is that if you've that when you feel you're getting something from it, that you are certainly in a position where I don't want people resenting it, if you're going to be paying for KNOCK Hazel, he doesn't want you worrying about it. Like I'll have to stroke a check and think about the number. He was an ACH, but I'm getting something of value. And if it's minute, positive thing, I have some noise about to come in my background. So let's wrap this up before we get drowned out.
Okay. Well, the other thing I want to talk about really quickly was, it's the beginning of the year. And I, you know, I've got my team that starting to give me last year's reports, which are always good to have, we missed some of our target numbers this year. And it's a learning experience, and we'll deal with it. But I'm wondering what are the like the core things as a business owner, you should be looking at? Every every week, right? I mean, obviously, it's lead flow, I think, and new files opened, those will be two things that I would be paying attention to every week. Because you can start to identify, you know, trend lines and see if there are ups and downs. What are some of the other things that you should be looking at as a firm owner, and sort of set yourself up for for 2023? To make sure you're looking at these data points weekly. So you can maintain, you know, what's the heartbeat of your firm? It basically,
let me ask you before I answer we may have to edit. Can you hear me over the noise? I don't hear any noise? Great. Okay, great. So, so for me, I'll give you a personal example. Right? So we did a we had a great year with personal injury, we had our best year ever, it's going in the right direction. All that's awesome. One of the things that we did is we pushed my law partner did better with his federal practice has expanded, and now has a number of attorneys into them, like more like a traditional law firm. So we have a top person he is a is a partner with him that's helping with operations with a bunch of associates. But it we are struggling in that as you build and grown of new things. You don't have the systems in place, you don't have that blueprint there. And that it has been painful, because some of the metrics that they were chasing, using some consultants as as sort of the the benchmark were incorrect. We were looking at, you know, theoretical billables not cash in the door, which sounds like how could you do that. And part of it is when you have multiple layers, money coming in, money being earned, things being builds, things then being collected, as you look at each of those things in especially if you're in a jurisdiction where you can't just say what were the numbers are large enough that it's earned upon receipt, for a larger case, it gets very complicated very quickly. And that as you build and grow, and when you do something out of your fundamental widget, making sure that you do have the discipline to make sure that not only is what you think going to be the way that it plays out. But are you taking the time to look at how those numbers play in? And is it showing you what you need, because you can High Five all day long on billables. But if the collections don't reflect it is a real problem. And that's something that we've sort of that's our issue du jour for q1 is we were you know, in one particular departments, it our formulas, we're looking at something not correctly, nothing that can't be fixed, right, nothing. But the idea that you are, especially when you're in growth mode, and you're adding things to the firm, that you continue to to reflect on. Is this getting you where you want to be? Or is this something that is sort of checking the box, but not telling you about the health of the firm and profitability.
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's another number that you probably should be looking at your AR receivables and what your arrearages I mean, I know you know, we if you take a look at our numbers, I think we were like 2.2% uncollected over the course of the year, which doesn't sound like much, but we're talking, you know, six figures, low six, but we were talking money that, you know, people said they were going to pay us and then payments declined and we've been chasing them some people who've been chasing for four or five months. And and so really staying on that I mean, because that's work that you dun. And I get that in some situations where your bill hourly, the last bill may not get fully paid, because you kept something after the majority of the bill was paid, and some things you got to just eat, but it's never good. So that's definitely something else that you should be looking at. So lead flow, your AR receivable, you know, what are the some of the other metrics that you think it's important? It's probably something that you can do just on one sheet of paper, maybe five? I can't imagine going more than 10. What are the things are something that you should be that you should be looking out for? Do you think,
I mean, I think phone calls in phone calls converted, that's something we spent a lot of 2020 to try to make sure what was our percentage of viable calls, which takes some effort. But this, you know, I think there's a longer conversation, we shouldn't just put this as a segment, let's next week, blow this out. And really try it, you know, between the Facebook group and here, get feedback from people, not off the top of our head, but really strategically, see if we can add some some layers of value to people here. Because, you know, there's, there's no shortage of those things. But I feel like if we are able to put out for people, you know, areas that we find most important in areas, we may have learned something when we were not as precise, hopefully that could add some value to the audience.
Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm actually going to roll something out. We've done our State of the Union speech tomorrow, where I address the firm, and then a recap last year, tell them what their plan is for this year. And we're gonna roll something out. We've done NPS for the firm for a while, but what we're gonna do is do NPS by lawyer and NPS by department. For those who don't know, net pa NPS is Net Promoter Score, it's, you know, you get the surveys all the time, on a scale of one to 10, how likely are you to refer us to somebody, and obviously, you know, one of the things that matters to us is making sure that there's good customer service. So instead of just having a general one for the entire office, we're actually going to drill down and give each lawyer their own calculation, and hit their clients at different points of the representation. Because I think, number one, it gets us to a level of customer service. And number two, I think it's also good to see how lawyers are stacking up against other lawyers, with their relationships with their clients, because, you know, we're in this business for a long time. So I'm curious if anybody else in the audience does NPS by individual departments, or NPS by individual attorneys in their firm? Because I haven't seen it. I know a lot of places have it, you know, and they say, What, what's the NPS for the actual business entirely, but I'm gonna drill down a little bit more, we're gonna get fewer answers per for some departments than than we'd like. But I figured what the heck, it's worth it to see if we get some actionable data on that. Do you guys do anything with Andrew Finkelstein
and Ryan McKean, have kicked me in the ass and pushed into We do surveys throughout the case, should do. The truth is, I know anecdotally who my best and worst are, do I have a hard number for each of them? Because I see, part of what I'm just looking for is real problems. You don't get a lot of negativity. But I know who my problems are. And part of my New Year's resolution for 2023 is I don't want to live with mediocrity. They're people that are okay, but they don't they get too many, not great communication pings back. And if I can somehow raise that bar and allow people, you know, and like, I think that's the key. The key is, you know, we've struggled a lot with hiring. And I'm hoping that this, you know, when we started, I first met you like, Oh, 70809, hiring was easy. It's been very, very hard. I think it's about to get a little bit easier. And the question is, you know, when big tech is laying off, that's going to have a trickle down all the way down. And that we're going to, I'm not saying it's, we are going to be in a position to I hope we are we're going to be able to see opportunities to operate. That's at least my wish.
Yeah, I'm hoping it's that way. I mean, this really came to me because at the end of the year, I got a review from a client who talks about their lawyer earlier in the year not communicating via email at all. And I brought it to the attention of the person and head of that department. And they said, you know, yeah, oh, yeah, that was so and so who laughed, and for six months, he just didn't email anybody back. And I'm thinking, how am I finding this out in December, obviously, we refunded the guy's money because he did have valid points. But if I have individualized NPS, I may be in a situation where I text that in month two, and we can stay on top of it rather than hearing about it nine months later, after the lawyers left, and that type of thing. And that's part of my mission for 2023. We're going to focus on NPS KPIs and customer service. That's really my my goal for this for this year is that is to really take us from Above Average to extraordinary when it comes to those those things because I think You know, the better you have customer service, the better you're going to fare long term. I mean, the reality is, is that the market dynamics are changing, especially in my area from offense. So I am curious what other people are going to be doing as their goals for 2023. So if you have goals, please leave them in the comments down below, let us know what you guys are setting for your individualized goals in your firm, because it's always inspiring to see what other people are doing. What else Seth, we got anything else to chat about?
No, I look, it's it's, it's getting getting ready for the new year, we have our all hands on deck, just a little bit excited for that, you know, we made great strides in 22. You know, we finally have core values that I that I appreciate, believe it and that resonate. For longest time I looked at core values, it's just sort of that plaque on the side of the wall. And I feel like we found, you know, we've found words that resonated throughout our firm, which is also complicated as we've multi different areas of practice. And so I'm just really excited. I think there's a lot of opportunity. And my I think one of the things that I have pushed for very hard kicking off this year, is to recruit to be able to gain excellence, and not sort of weather with mediocrity, what can we do, and I see this in a lot of different ways. When you when you have talent coming in, that is great. I feel like it also pushes existing people to raise their bar. And when you sort of coast, it's sort of like, Hey, these are my people, everything is fine. And you don't have that fresh blood coming in. Like I want people here forever. And we've had a really great run. But I'd like to continue to build and grow. And for a future episode talk a little bit about legacy players, and how to deal with people as they go through their different stages of life. Way, way back, we went from never having a maternity leave to having five or six in a year. And you know, as your firm matures and grows, we talked a little bit of this in a prior episode, how do you find opportunities for the people at your firm? So they can find a home as their desires and needs change over time?
Oh, yeah, you know, we've been, we've been very lucky in having some people stay with us for a very long time. But we've been able to accommodate their needs, both geographically, now with technology, and also with their families. I mean, I have one of my top paralegals who I haven't seen her in three years, she's got three little babies, and I probably won't see her for, you know, anywhere other than a zoom for another for another two or three years at least. But you know, she's able to give work piecemeal, she's not able to do it full time. But we want to keep her actively engaged in the firm, because she's talented. And we know we value her. And I think she values, the flexibility that we have. Not every firm can do that we're lucky to be the size that we're able to do that. And we do that by having some redundancies. But that's helped me over the last two years and building in redundancies early. So that we have that. And I was lamenting to you before we came on. We had somebody even ghost us on the very first day of work two days ago, three days ago, just didn't show up for first day of work.
You don't want it, it's those first few days. Obviously, it's unusual that it's that early, but like that's part of the test, you know, it's part it's part of the game. And again, if this was a senior person with massive numbers of interviews, you'd be really upset. But we've all made mistakes. We brought a marketing person out earlier this year. And you know, it was a credentialed, dynamic individual, but like the moment they hit, it was not the same person. So I look at it this way. Better to know now it's painful, but you know, a small price to pay to make sure you get the right people on the bus.
So let me ask you a side hustle wise. I mean, I guess it is a side hustle. blue shark. I mean, it's really a pretty massive side hustle, what are blue, what's blue shards big thing for 2023?
You know, I think that what's really all the rage right now is looking at this AI content creation, and figuring out how it can be leveraged effectively. It's, you know, in one respect, it's just spitting content the way people did years ago. And in one respect, it is a technology that needs to be analyzed. And we're, you know, circling hard to figure out how this fits into search engine optimization and website, you know, health over time. So that that's sort of the the most exciting thing going on right now. You know, local is local, and is there and figuring out ways to help firms extract views out of its happy clients and office location strategies. But, you know, we got an amazing team there. And, you know, ironically, our accounts team that deals with lawyers on a day in day out basis, you know, often listened to our podcasts as a way of learning some of the different nuances of you know, If you're 2324 years old, and you're talking to a business owner, what's going through their mind when you're speaking? You know, I know that when I was 2324 years old, I would have no idea about the intricacies of what running a business was really about. And so it's been pretty cool to close the loop, I do talks directly with them, but they also listening in to try to get a sense as to the mentality to try to make sure that they are there for clients so that they can serve their needs and anticipate what will be their pain points.
That's very cool. That's very cool. I mean, for us in firm flex my, my sort of side hustle, we've got some really exciting things coming down the line. I know a lot of people in the group are using our DIY product. And we've had John fish as a huge fan, we've been doing it for a while, we actually have built out this social super system where we actually have our writers writing stuff for people, we've got a couple of people on the platform now. And we're launching a whole new platform that my brother really spent a lot of time to building up over the last six months. So we're gonna give away everybody a free two week trial, and actually reduced the price shortly down to basically what the DIY program costs. So it's, you're going to be getting a lot, a lot of stuff for a very cheap price, which is I'm excited about and I'm hoping people tune in at least if nothing else, get the two week free trial and see out, see how you like it and give us some feedback, I'm going to be doing something where I give away some slots in the in the law firm faith Facebook, law firm blueprint Facebook group, so people can get in on that. But that's all I got. It's early in the year set. It's only Thursday. So we got a lot more to go. I'm about to do my, my State of the Union, you're gonna do your State of the Union. Anything else you got to add?
No, have a have a great week, and I'll see you next week. Have a
great week. I'll see you next week. And, you know, pitchers and catchers report in like 40 days. So I'm excited about that, you know,
I know you're disgruntled Jets fan but our giants are in the playoffs one way or another for the first time in quite a while. So
yeah, that's good for you guys. It's good for you, my jets crash and burn. That's just what I'm used to. So, I mean, I get beat up for a living as a criminal defense lawyer. Might as well pick up
maybe Gary Vee will pick you up and bring you bring you salvation.
I would love it. If he bought the team. I can only imagine he was in my section a couple of weeks ago. And when I went to the game, and I didn't find him and I'm so pissed that I didn't like walk down to find him and take a picture with him. But I'll get to another game at some point and I'll be able to do it that very good. All right, man. Thank you very much, folks. That's gonna do it for us here at the law firm blueprint of course you can find this every week here live in the group 3pm Eastern 12pm Pacific. And you can catch our podcasts wherever podcasts are available online. Now of course, give us five stars if you're downloading the podcast, and be sure to follow our Facebook group if you're not a member of the law firm blueprint Facebook group. That's gonna do it for us. That's for Seth. I'm Jake bye for now. Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Subcribe to our newletter to receive news on update
