Jay Ruane  0:00  

Hello. Hello. Welcome to this edition of the law firm blueprint. I’m one of your hosts Jay Ruane and with me, as always is my man, Seth Price. Seth, I’ve got a couple bombs dropped on me this week. But how’s your week going before we start?

 

Seth Price  0:18  

I’m doing great. We got a great time at Syracuse admitted students day. My son’s headed up to Sports Management School at Falk. And just anyway, just to see the excitement of what’s possible and to see how college students are operating today, blew my mind. We were with a bunch of kids from Newhouse and from the Sports Management School, and the way that they look at networking. We literally spent a dinner where they were talking about how they’re leveraging podcasts and their network with spreadsheets about who they’ve made contact with, who they’ve had a first conversation with, what the next step is. I mean, they are taking like on steroids, what lawyers talk about, generally, even coming out of your offline marketing talk, it was really remarkable to see the energy and drive that these guys bring to the table.

 

Jay Ruane  1:10  

Well it’s interesting, because you’re the king of networking, right? So like, did you get any ideas? Like, now I got to start doing a spreadsheet and that type of thing.

 

Seth Price  1:18  

No, I think, look, these are the fundamentals. It was more like they were drinking from the fire hose. And there was one kid who was doing phone calls of 25 you know, he did it a very targeted LinkedIn  in the coaching space, and want to do like, 15-20, minute phone calls with people like, why not record them? You’re 19 years old. Imagine the content you’ll have when you’re 24 and he’s really into special teams. That’s his niche. I’m like, imagine if all the special team coaches that you interview now, where are they in five years, right? And so just like we talked about on our show, doing a series on this topic or that topic. So I think it wasn’t that they taught me anything. They were more listening, but what I took was, Oh yeah, that was the passion and drive. You know, when you do that, when you make the cold call and you look somebody up, I’m going to be in Baltimore for a meeting, and a guy that I cold called years ago and connected with. It’s time to reconnect. So it’s very much the idea that just doing it once is one thing, but making sure that you continue to and being a little purposeful. You know, if the barbers are paying dividends, God bless. But who are the people paying dividends? Who are the people that, if you’re that you know that do pay, or have paid dividends in the past, and you haven’t talked to in two years.

 

Jay Ruane  2:42  

but, but Seth, wouldn’t it be better to just take that time and throw all that time and money and effort into digital?

 

Seth Price  2:50  

I think that is the diversification of it. So I look

 

Jay Ruane  2:54  

Wait a minute. Are you telling me you’re gonna go offline and you learn some lessons from a younger..

 

Seth Price  3:01  

I mean that like offline is life, but in a B, that’s the B2B piece of it. If you, if you’re pretending that your B2C business is going to be created offline, that’s a mistake, right? You can’t network yourself to DUI cases in the volume you need to survive, but making sure that you have a steady steam of high value cases from those people. It’s not, hopefully it’s not an either or, but if you want to scale your practice, there’s only so much from that. But the thing like, we go to masterminds, there are people that don’t go to masterminds are gonna be incredibly valuable, and those one on one contacts allow you to gain perspective. I think so like, I’m not anti offline. Look, he’s king of networking that said, I think there are guardrails that need to be put up to protect Jay Ruane from himself, that we need to have a reality check on where we’re spending time and not just doing for the sake of doing it.

 

Jay Ruane  3:53  

Okay, but I mean, you know, I started with the haircuts back when I had all the time in the world and zero

 

Seth Price  4:00  

of all the hair in the world.

 

Jay Ruane  4:02  

Yeah, oh my god. I so we just took a vacation as a family. We went to Aruba. And the last time I was in Aruba was 17 years ago with my wife. It was our first trip together. And so we’re like, now, let’s take the kids back, and we’ll do and so lot of reminiscing, that sort of thing. But in my Facebook memories, the pictures came up, you know, 17 years ago, dude, I had so much hair and it was so much darker. I mean, my wife looks the same. She’s an angel, but holy hell, I have had a rough and rugged 17 years.

 

Seth Price  4:41  

hang out with me. These are the things that happen.

 

Jay Ruane  4:42  

These are things. But okay, so I’m on vacation trying not to stress. You know, interesting. my heart rate, according to my apple watch, my heart rate went down 15 beats a minute for the entire for these things. So I was, you know, my average heart rate dropped by 15 beats a minute while I was on vacation. So my cardiologist I met, I sent him a message, because we’re friendly, and he said, Well, my prescription is you need to take more vacations. So, so we’re doing it again in in two months, where countdown has begun and we’re going to take another vacation, although that’s a cruise with both my parents and my in laws and all the kids.

 

Seth Price  5:25  

I don’t see that heart rate’s going up, not down. If we did that with mine, there’d be like a reality show based on it.

 

Jay Ruane  5:31  

Yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure. But anyway, so here’s the issue that popped up. We have the person who coordinates all of our marketing. our head of marketing, luckily, she is pregnant with her second child. We are very happy for her. We did not find out about it until last week. She is due in four months because she had a high risk pregnancy, and she didn’t want to tell anybody while that was pending. And she’s a remote employee, so nobody saw her. So it was easy for her to keep it quiet, which I totally respect. And my firm is built on being able to support our lifestyles in the way we want to have them, so I am not worried about it at all. However, you know, I don’t know what’s the best move? Because I’ve got 90 days or so until, or a little over 90 days until she’s out of here. So I gotta figure by, you know, by September, she’s out for her six month maternity leave, which is what we get, and that means I’ve got, you know, six months, if you know, assuming she comes back, which I think she will, but maybe she won’t whatever. The question then is, do I step into the role and act as the traffic cop and make sure things get done? I have the bandwidth I could do that for the six month period, and I enjoy it? Do I bring in somebody temporarily to try to get that done, but getting into our flow and knowing everybody and that type of thing, I think I’d still be majorly involved. Do I outsource some of the work that I would have to do to some vendors for a short period of time, how to deal with, you know? And I don’t want to say unexpected, because we knew at some point she was going to have more children. She expressed it, and we support it, obviously, but the timeline, you know, for me, is a little accelerated compared to knowing at the four month mark and having more, more runway before I have to make this decision. It’s kind of accelerating. 

 

Seth Price  7:35  

So you know, it’s interesting. Yeah, we’ve seen like, we’ve seen the world change, like, like, when you start a business, right? We started with relatively young people, because we were young, because we were young. that’s all we knew, and there was no maternity leave. And now, you know, the world in a good way, I think has evolved where we’ve given much more credence to allowing for greater leeway for maternity leave. Now paternity leave, and that was just not a thing, you know decades ago. And so we’re sort of, and there’s a bunch of different layers right. on one, there’s an economic level, as far as if it was somebody who was interchangeable, there’s just an economics piece. in certain jurisdictions, DC, you now pay another tax, which kind of like one of the few where you get actually paid up to like, six figures for that time off, which is pretty cool. I think what you’re getting at, though, is not the money piece, but the continuity piece. Now there I put two different categories. If somebody is a case manager, or, in the case of BluShark, a client success person, somebody who’s client facing. That’s where we’ve seen real challenges, right? So the different issue than you brought up where your constituency, whether it be clients or whether it be law firms, in the case of BluShark, rely on somebody for that communication. And I still remember early days of Avvo, we still could get leads from them, way back in the day before you turned it off and didn’t see any noticeable difference. But when the idea is in those positions, we have a different issue, right? Which is who we are now swapping somebody out, and it’s not the same person, and every transition comes with risk and peril. I think what you’re dealing with is as a small to medium business, how much redundancy is there something you’ve talked about repeatedly,

 

Jay Ruane  9:22  

Yeah, we’ve talked about a lot.

 

Seth Price  9:24  

How much are you going to be that piece, you know, unlikely that this is a vendor who’s going to come in and be able to do what you need? Is it an executive assistant that could do 80 cents on the dollar of what this person was doing? And then you have, you know, that you could direct and yes, you’d have to parachute in. But at 20, 20% of it, you know, I don’t love you’re not going to take over the job, per se, but I think it’s you got to look down and say, what is that person doing? Hopefully, with the Jay Ruane systems, you have that, but if you know what needs to be done, then you can figure out what you can push off on different people. Uh, potentially another outside company, but, like unlikely, knowing Jay and how you operate, right? So it’s a short term piece.

 

Jay Ruane  10:07  

Part of my thought was was hire a remote assistant, like a VA. I can film looms and give them instructions and have them execute the stuff, so that some of the stuff that needs, hey, these blog posts need to be scheduled. Here’s how you schedule them. Here’s how you do it.

 

Seth Price  10:29  

Understood, but I would almost think that hopefully, let’s take the lemon to turn a lemonade. In theory, my hope for you is you take that you figure out if this can be done with a Loom and international employee. When this person comes back, hopefully they’re promoted. This is not to take away the job, but hopefully, if this stuff is so basic X percent of their job, why aren’t you leveraging international labor for it? So in one sense, it’s almost like turning off Avvo for a second and seeing what do you need, and how can you push this person north, and they’ve been with you for a long time. What are they doing that’s just because you’ve always done it that way, versus what can AI and international layer in that would allow this person to start moving up the food chain, to give them more more responsibility and hopefully be more productive and give greater ROI to the firm?

 

Jay Ruane  11:19  

Yeah. It reminds me of a story, you know, Eli, you know, however you care about him, he’s kind of crazy, but he’s also a genius in some ways. Elon Musk had this where he had an assistant who said she needed time off, and when she came back, he was like, Yeah, I don’t need you anymore. you know, I’m going to retire you because now I have three people that did your job, and they’re doing it, and they’re able to do actually accomplish more. So bye, bye, you don’t have a job anymore. I don’t. I don’t want to be that way with with her.

 

Seth Price  11:48  

No, but what I would say is, what, but what of the job? Look, this is something I struggle so, like, I’ve had a history of not having the right I mean, I was Murphy Brown of marketing assistants. I’ve churned more than I’d like to acknowledge generally.

 

Jay Ruane  12:05  

A lot of people don’t get that reference. Seth, I think you need to explain it. Okay, so Murphy Brown was a sitcom, I’d say, in the late 70s. Now it wasn’t the late 70s but it was. Was it the 90s? Okay, whatever? Candice Bergen Stark, and every week she had a new secretary. That was the thing

 

Seth Price  12:26  

that was put by the end.

 

Jay Ruane  12:32  

Wasn’t Kramer in one of, one of

 

Seth Price  12:35  

Paul Rubens was in one, you know, you name it. She had every major celebrity. And then she got into a pissing contest with the Vice President till candidate over being a single mom. That was a huge deal. Shows you how right

 

Jay Ruane  12:48  

She got..

 

Seth Price  12:49  

Quail was very upset because she was gonna be a single mom. So hey,

 

Jay Ruane  12:54  

well, talk about how times have changed.

 

Seth Price  12:56  

Isn’t that crazy? There was no paternity time in the barely, but so you got three days off. But so what I would say is I never figured it out, and that I think that as we leveraged International and we realized what was not what could be done well and repeatable, and then allowing somebody to elevate beyond sort of rudimentary things. And look, part of this, I think, goes to what will you and this is something I if you listen to the All In podcast with Cal Canis and those guys, what will US labor do? And there’s an issue, which is, there’s certain work that, like, it’s very hard to get the Gen Z millennial crowd to do repeatedly. There’s, you know, they’re being distracted by social video. There’s all these things. If you’re able to take this person while they’re not there and figure out, hey, I can get this part of the job done more inexpensively, and then they can start filling that gap where, where it could push into what Jay Ruane has to do, and allow you to push them north, then all of a sudden, you’re getting more value from them, not less. And it could move further towards you, wanting to take more vacations where there’s a person in place that’s not just doing the rudimentary pieces of checking with vendors, but are you giving them the bandwidth to start thinking about pushing back on vendors, and what would you want to do? And what are they bringing suggestions to you? Because if you’re constantly doing things that literally could be replicated with international labor or AI, is that really the best use of a domestic worker? And I think that as that use this as a let’s try to use this time to innovate and not just jump in and do their job, but figure out, like turning to bring it full circle, like turning off Avvo back in the day, what is missing, and then replace it. Hopefully it’s not an Elon Musk situation, which I thought was done for effect more than anything else. But if you’re able to say to that person, okay, you don’t need to do this replicable work. But. I would love somebody who can think about what is next. You know, you were, you know, give you an example. You talk about PPC being cheap in one pocket of Connecticut. Are there other places that you want to test that in? Right? You can’t do that if you’re constantly doing the very, very basic so let’s hope that you can use this as an opportunity to upgrade the position, not with a different person, but with better responsibilities when you realize what doesn’t need to be done by them.

 

Jay Ruane  15:27  

it’d be interesting if she goes off on maternity leave and maybe comes back to a team that’s doubled or tripled in size.

 

Seth Price  15:34  

Well, look, the whole point is, the whole reason we have laws is to make sure you’re not replacing somebody while they’re out. And here, I think it’s going to be to, you know, bring them back, you know, better than ever with a much improved and frankly, okay, let’s, let’s talk about this. I see this with criminal defense lawyers. There’s a point where, with a second kid in particular, criminal defense becomes less desirous for many women, just I’ve seen it, you know, and again, never tell someone they can’t do it. But that the ability to be doing shift work, where you have to be in court at a certain time, if that person wants to be home with kids at different times, becomes more complicated. If you have somebody moving into a multi kid situation, where now three kids. You’re at four, that there are things that will happen where, if you can utilize them in a more executive function, rather than in a shift function, where they’re doing rote tasks. hopefully that will elevate the position and let you retain them over time, rather than having somebody who has to face time, so to speak, where they have to get things done. I’m hoping for your sake that you’re able to look at that position, because I know, using the rumor vibra how difficult that position is, and that we don’t always know what we want. We have very high expectations, and people will churn unless you get the right person moment. I want to knock on them on glass right now, but if there was what, I’d be knocking on it, which is very blessed to have a great marketing person at Price Benowitz right now, who has gumption. She survived Bill Umansky’s world. So if you could do that, you can do anything she and that. I don’t have to tell her everything, because some of it is you don’t know what you want. They’re going to come with ideas you would sell them having some of them aren’t great, but they’re constantly feeding it, but you can’t do that if it’s all reporting and minutia. So I’m hoping to use this as the opportunity to raise them up.

 

Jay Ruane  17:30  

Yeah. I mean, I think that, I think that’s good advice, and I think that that would be the place to go. I mean, the reality is that I have to do something. I have to take some action, and

 

Seth Price  17:40  

you’re going to take the action, use that as the time to slice it and figure out what’s there. So instead of the threat of losing a job, they’re going to come back to, you know, a promotion, so to speak, because you’re you’re in a position to figure out that. And my guess is, if somebody’s been with you, they’re probably right for it. There’s just never a good you never take a break. You’re never taking your thumb, you know, it’s a, you know, it’s a constant treadmill. You’re never taking that moment to think.

 

Jay Ruane  18:08  

Well, that and that’s, that’s one of the challenges of running a business, the business that I built, you know, five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, two years ago, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing. I mean,

 

Seth Price  18:21  

I was fighting you to get out of court.

 

Jay Ruane  18:23  

I was looking at my numbers for the first quarter of this year, and we matched our entire revenue from 2017 in the first quarter this year.

 

Seth Price  18:36  

Wow. It’s a life moment.

 

Jay Ruane  18:38  

2016 we just missed 2017 which is crazy to think how much we’ve grown.

 

Seth Price  18:46  

Part of it’s just, you know, part of it’s the is the process, and part of it was like, my guess is part of it’s getting you out of the essential practitioner.

 

Jay Ruane  18:54  

yeah, and quoting higher fees and having a true, you know, not at one point I was going to court and doing the intakes in the afternoon, like a lot of our audience does. And I, you know, we shifted it to somebody who’s dedicated intake and then dedicated intake team, and now we have trainings for the intake team and getting them right. And you know, it’s, it’s, this is a, this is a business. And every year, every day, every minute, you have to make your business better. And it’s a secondary job to being the job of the lawyer that a lot of us, a lot of us, have to do when we start our firms. So I think that’s, you know, I think what else we got going on your book just came out, right?

 

Seth Price  19:37  

We just, we just dropped Local SEO for Lawyers. Passion play as you know. It’s something that you know, near and dear to my heart, built the 50 lawyer firm using local search, and had been, you know, long time in the making. Writing a book a pain in the ass. Not easy. A lot of the book companies that we have access to as lawyers, not great. We really struggled but finally was able to produce what I think is the definitive work on what it takes to rank locally and produce replicable business at scale. You know, digital has evolved. There’s now AI answer to the top. There’s still paid search, but there’s great money to be made from local search, and that has been a passion play. You know, we put together with our team essentially all of the fundamentals in one place, which really hadn’t been done before. You know, lots of books on SEO, but there have never, there’s never been something where all of that knowledge is in one place. And I feel that we’re, you know, talking about for people who are, whether starting out, who don’t have resources for everything. This is one of those places that they can sort of read through and figure out, what are the things I can do myself, and what are the things I might need to outsource.

 

Jay Ruane  20:56  

Yeah, and I think, you know, I have it on my nightstand. I’m slowly getting through it. I read a couple of pages every night. Not that it puts me to sleep, but it’s just, you know, my wind down activity is doing a little reading, trying to get away from the screens, right? So that’s what I do. But it’s definitely book. You can get it on Amazon right?

 

Seth Price  21:14  

Yes.

 

Jay Ruane  21:15  

Absolutely, pick up a copy of it. Very important to this topic. When it comes to lawyers, what else you want to talk about?

 

Seth Price  21:22  

Well, I was gonna say other book that that I’m, that I’m loving these days, is the, the new Jim Collins book, you know, for those people that read Good to Great, he has sort of the interpersonal one about life, and you know what? You know, what’s luck, and where are the windows, the the framing of when you’re in the zone, when you’re not in the zone, not his words. Those are my words. But I have a feeling that that’s going to be really big in the coming weeks, and I hope that as people finally get through that book, we can have further discussions on it.

 

Jay Ruane  21:52  

All right, well, I’ll pick up a copy of it, and then I’ll start reading it. You know, I’ve got a couple of vacations coming up. I’ve got some stuff planned, so I’m really excited about getting some time away. It’s 31 degrees this week here in Connecticut. I came back from 85 degrees in Aruba, so I’m staying at home, and we started up the fireplace, even though it’s the end of April 2026.

 

Seth Price  22:15  

At the Syracuse tour, we had a snowstorm. Like it was out of the movies, as if somebody turned on the set with a wet, heavy snow as we’re walking to the Faulk school. It was crazy. I could not I’m sure it’s not what they wanted for admitted students day. But I think there’s a theory that, like, you know, because it is, you know, you’re in upstate New York, and it’s cool that the idea that it keeps the students aren’t like in South Beach running downtown, that they creates a bond that I think is part of what the secret success up there has been.

 

Jay Ruane  22:51  

well, and the most important thing, I think, for your son, is that Syracuse now is Jerry McNamara, you know, excited. I mean that, that, you know, he brings a, you know, a winning sort of, you know, get Syracuse basketball back. You know, where was he at Lemoine. He was, I’m trying to remember where he was before he…Siena. He was at Sienna, right? It’s great. It’s green. I knew they’re one of their colors was green, but he was playing, he was coaching at Siena. Now he’s back at Syracuse. So I think that’s going to be a fantastic.

 

Seth Price  23:25  

What an incredible that the way they use their dome is a sort of a metaphor for business and in life, you know, they got this big dome. They could obviously football, but, you know, they change it. They use it for basketball. They reformulate it. We came for admitted students day their tables on the on the field, if you were at the crisp summit at their day at the dome in Atlanta, very similar, you know, they use that facility and squeeze every ounce of juice out of it. And, you know, and part of being there, one of the things they talk about sports management is just getting a day job on the transition, figuring out how to turn it from one event to another, and seeing that because much of what we’re talking about, whether it’s a you know, much of what we talk about here on the show is about, how do you take something and multipurpose it, whether it be people or whether it be other assets, and make sure you get the most out of it?

 

Jay Ruane  24:20  

Yeah, I mean, that’s really, the thing is just, you know, really embracing. schools nowadays. I mean, I know when I showed up in my college, like, it was just basically like, all right, go for it. I don’t even, I don’t remember an admitted student day. I mean, I know we had, like, the

 

Seth Price  24:36  

No, I don’t. I was just lucky to get into Penn and showed my ass up, I think. But we also did something. Then more is that we would, I like, went and stayed over with friends who might have been a year ahead of you. I think there was more of that. Maybe people are still doing. I don’t care about that as much. Maybe kids are more involved. But this was, but it’s also think about it. Let me take the negative side to it. This is a, you know, 70, I blocked it out tuition. Forget room and board. Tuition is high 60s, right. So tuition times that by four, forget it. And the room and board is also somewhat going to university, because they’re going to, I’m sure there’s margin on the food service, and certainly they’re paying debt service on the on the rent you pay, you know. so it is a for the student is approaching, if not there, a $400,000 asset. It’s larger than houses in some markets, certainly more expensive than cars. Yeah, most part. So you when you look at what they’re putting into this admitted students day, where people are choosing, but we were committed as easy one. But when you’re looking at where somebody is going and what is the yield. it is, imagine the economic difference if they change the yield by one or 2% of the people that choose them. The big article Syracuse, got written up, where they didn’t hit the yield, right? And then they started going back to people that either rejected them or hadn’t accepted yet with more money. And it’s, you know, it’s always been a business, but I think that’s where you know it is when you think about it in those terms. And why the for profit? Well, get on soapbox. Why the for profit space is so scary, because when your academic advisor is a salesperson, that’s a line that you’ve crossed, and you can’t unsee it where you know, because the dollars are so significant. you know, you buy a house that goes upside down, you can declare BK. This stuff is bankruptcy proof. So whatever decision you’re making, and I looked around, this was a pretty sophisticated crowd. It was, you know, a parent with a kid. you know, clueless kid being walked around by a parent through this process. But when you think about what’s, you know, what is the decisions being made by kids at this age that will affect very the rest of their lives, but at least the next several decades, when it comes to debt service being paid off. And are you, you know, isn’t just like, is it fun, is it innovative, but is this going to get you a return on investment? You know what I was so impressed about, at least the Faulk School, and what I saw at Newhouse was like, it was all about that first job, and what was the median income coming out, they were all about that. But it is, you know, when you look at the traditional liberal arts, I’ll figure it out later concept that I was. My parents were like, we want you going liberal arts. We’ll pay for it. You’re doing it. But, you know, $400,000 where you’re then figuring it out from there. That’s, that’s no joke.

 

Jay Ruane  27:41  

It really is no joke. And it, you know, this is a conversation that I’m starting to have with my wife about, like, you know, we have, you know, our oldest is dead set. She wants to be a pediatrician. She’s putting in the work now. She’s got her plan, you know, that type of thing. But my oldest son, you know, I’m like, do we are we going to invest, you know, half a million dollars for him to go to a school where he has no idea what he wants to do. Or maybe he should do community college for a year and start to see

 

Seth Price  28:11  

or you do a gap year and just let him grow up. I mean, Malcolm Gladwell,

 

Jay Ruane  28:14  

honestly, I really think, you know, I’ve actually been researching that. I think a gap year might suit him the best.

 

Seth Price  28:20  

A neighbor friend of mine has a program called gap well, where he, you know, it’s pay to play, but he figures out how to get them a why, where to send them, what to do. And it does it both scale as well as private. And, you know, look, we our oldest weren’t sure if he was going that route. And look time. Time is valuable. Anything you do to buy some time, but if they really have no clue, you know, at those types of numbers, you know, is it irresponsible to not wait? Not that you don’t want them getting a college degree in that experience. But you know, what is that? What is the rush? You know, we red shirt athletes so that they’re more more there. Why? Why don’t we do that for academics?

 

Jay Ruane  29:03  

I’m going to red shirt my son, who’s an extrovert like you, who loves to talk, and he’s going to get a job at some PI firm doing intake for a year. He can make some money and he could learn how to, you know, continue to talk to people, and learn a job, and decide what he wants to do. And so everybody who’s got those PI firms that all have those scholarships. He’s going to apply to every single one of them, but I think I’m going to stick him to work in an intake department somewhere across this great country of ours.

 

Seth Price  29:30  

not taking anything away from your son, but just leaves me on a final topic before we leave, which is what I’ve seen. That intake is getting more and more like. I feel like we’re at the forefront of this, but that we are starting to move less and less from a body to answer the phone to, is this the best salesperson you can put in that position? Oh, yeah. And so even that, that’s the crazy part. Like they’ll always be a firm for him to get, to get a job and get experience at. Maybe topic for the next show is, how is intake evolving? I know you’re working on some technology there. Let’s make that topic for the next show.

 

Jay Ruane  30:07  

I love it. All right, folks, that’s going to do it for us this week on the law firm blueprint. Thank you for being with us. Of course, you can take us anywhere you want to go, on the go by subscribing to the law firm blueprint podcast, wherever you get your podcast, and you can catch us live every week, 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific, live on LinkedIn and live in our Facebook group, the law firm blueprint that’s gonna do it for me. I’m J B Wayne. He is Seth price. Thanks for being with us. Bye for now.