Join Seth and Jay as they talk about how to handle a GREAT producing employee who can’t pay nice with others, and how to know how large you can possibly grow.
Hello, hello, and welcome to another edition of Maximum Growth Live. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane, CEO of FirmFlex, your social media marketing funnels for lawyers, as well as managing partner, CEO, visionary, whatever you want to call me, of Ruane Attorneys, a civil rights and criminal defense firm here in the great state, the Constitution state of Connecticut. With me, as always, is my man with a plan, Seth Price. Seth’s over there at the headquarters of BluShark Digital, your SEO for law firms, but he’s also a managing partner of Price Benowitz, your DC, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina, and I got to come up with another one. Let’s go, Vermont. Have you ever thought about opening in Vermont? I heard this week that there’s only like 3000 lawyers in the entire state of Vermont, which blows my mind because I think there’s like 3000 lawyers in my county here in Connecticut.
You know what this reminds me of, there’s counties in Maryland, that there’s, like, hardly any lawyers and, like, it becomes, oh, we should, you know, all the time, I should really have a presence there, this and that, and I’m like, great. So, two issues. One, you either have to hire somebody there, and those guys are already old school, they’re not dealing with the outside, or you got to schlep yourself there… but for Vermont the hiking is good. So, you know, but yes, it is an interesting dilemma.
Cross country skiing from town to town, you know, it’s funny, you know, you and I both met through the National DUI community, and inevitably, it was always, hey, does anybody know a DUI lawyer up in Vermont, I have a friend who was skiing and got pinched for a DUI, and I only knew, ever really knew one who was way up in Burlington. And it was tough to find, like a lawyer who really did DUI to the same type of, I guess, passion or concentration that I did here in my home state. And so, that actually brings up topic number one that I want to talk about, we talk a little pre show about this, and that is, you know, practice in a box, Seth, like, what does it take to really sort of launch and get out there? And I bring this up because later this week we’re going to be doing a little bit of a firm retreat, and inevitably, I have had new attorneys that have joined me, even if they’ve come from another firm or they’ve started with me, inevitably I hear, I want to be like you but for x, right? And I look at them, and I say to myself, do they have what it takes, because in retrospect, I look back on me getting out of law school at 25, really to about 35 as where I really sort of made my bones as a trial lawyer, as, you know, get focused on a particular niche and really blew it out. And during those years, I was really focusing only on one thing, I wasn’t really focusing on growing the business, I wasn’t focusing on systems. I was giving presentations, trying a lot of cases, I mean, especially for, you know, for what I do, DUI, I mean, in Connecticut there’s not a lot of trials overall but I was trying four, five, six cases a week, but, you know, I was putting myself out there, I was talking to people constantly, and I see a lot of younger lawyers or other lawyers saying, well, I want to take over this market, and they think that it’s only done through digital, and I know you’re a digital guy, and you can make a lot of inroads establishing yourself as the person, the man, the woman, the whatever, for a particular practice area, digitally, but that doesn’t necessarily do it on the, on the professional side because you need to do, you need to sort of be seen by your colleagues, counterparts, competitors out there as being the person for this or that.
Look, I’ll play counterpoint, do you? Now, look, I’m assuming you need to know what you’re doing. I’m not suggesting, I see a lot of people in a lot of places. There’s walking malpractice as you start your role, which is why, in the criminal side, my recommendation as opposed, as I’m sure yours is, get yourself ideally to a public defender, if not a prosecutor’s office, get your malpractice out when you’re, when you have some immunity, right? That’s the ideal, but I think that there’s two ways to look at it because there are people that have done it through community, and that’s great for a guy who likes to be a disrupter, I’m surprised you coming from this direction, as opposed to, you know, when we started our criminal practice, nobody really knew who we were, we were not part of the establishment and through marketing, and if you, you know, spoke to Alexis Austin out at max law during the mastermind, and she was really having a hard time with some of those local dominant players, because she was a market disrupter not following that path, and probably, and hopefully, over time doing significantly better than some of the old school people. So, I think it’s a mixed bag, like, look, I, like, you know, me, I want to be a pleaser, I’d like to have my cake and eat it too, but I think that it’s multiple, there’s multiple, multifaceted, right? One is you just need work experience. Ideally, if you know what you want to do later in life, that’s best, but for myself, I went big law that check the box and try to start, you know, there are a bunch of things you can do. There are plenty of people who were very successful PI lawyers that did big law and pivoted in there, right? They learned how to do stuff, you know, both on the defense side, on a global level, and then brought themselves there. So, I think, first, life experience, what are the skills and people skills, you know, interpersonal skills that you’re gonna need in order to do it? Then, there’s the substance of how do you actually do the sausage making? And the final piece is, how do you bring in business? And each of those depends on the type of law you’re doing, and how established the market is, and which of those three things you come to the table with, that you can balance to determine how to approach this.
You know, it’s interesting because, you know, I have no, I’m gonna randomly pick a practice area, right? I have no experience or skill as of, you know, March 10th, 2022 in handling workers compensation cases, I don’t even know where the local workers compensation office is. But I could easily throw up 50 pages of content, invest, you know, 10 to $20,000 in pay per click, and wind up with, you know, 15 to 20, you know, workers compensation cases, but in order for me to be known as the guy, or my attorney, to be known as a woman…
But do you have to be known as the guy? I guess, my, that’s my question. I mean, you’re day one doing this, you want to be the guy, you can’t, you could accelerate it, but that’s time on task, it’s personal connections, and the part that’s so hard, is it’s hard to be known as the guy for everything. You’re the guy for DUI, nationally for Connecticut, right? That’s, you branded yourself there. You know, if you said I’m both DUI and PI, all of a sudden, a bunch of referral sources aren’t there locally, and you diverse, you hurt your ability to sort of be known for one thing. Now, can you be known for two? Maybe, but I think one of the things I’ve struggled with is being known for multiple is not easy.
I agree. I agree 100%, I think that’s a challenge, it’s almost like you have to, you know, start to having a rep before you can, you know, I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but I feel like you should be exceptional in your practice area as you start to build it out. But you brought up a Alexis and this is a really good point, and I actually know one of her main competitors, we’re very friendly. I’ve known him from the National DUI circuit now for 20 years or so, and she came in as a disrupter, and I think that was awesome and she’s really done a good job. But when I have spoken to him, about, you know, disruptors in their community, he is still getting a majority of his cases by way of referral, which is what he always did. And I’m wondering if, I mean, how big is Colorado Springs, half a million people in the general area? And I’m just wondering if you’re going to be the person, do you also have to factor in geography? Because you can be a big fish in a tiny pool, and never be able to get to revenue numbers that you thought were what you wanted to be. How important is geography in growing your practice? I mean, we talked about today, we talked about geography in terms of your GMBs and where you set up shop, and all that stuff, but also, you know, do you have to sit back and actually look at population numbers and is your community growing or shrinking?
Right. How large a community it is, and how…
Do you know any lawyer who’s done that? Who’s actually said, let me look at the population?
They don’t, they’re not looking at it that way but they do look at it and say, realistically, what is my, you know… Okay, they’re using two extremes, referral lawyers that take years to build, either, you either get handed a practice or you build it up yourself, you know, versus marketing. So, look at DC and Colorado Springs, they have something in common. Colorado was a huge military presence, you know, DC’s a huge transient town, every four years people coming and going, people come for school, people come for, you know, internships, all sorts of stuff so, there are people that are long standing people. But I think one of the things that made Price Benowitz successful was because of that transient nature, there were less dominant players to deal with, plenty of lawyers in DC, and I think that the great thing about Colorado Springs, probably has both, right? You have the people who are there for generations and then, you also have people that are there for a short period of time. Those people for a short period of time likely are not going to find the quote unquote dominant player and they’re going to use other methods, and so, that’s where I think there’s a place for both people, and if, you know what, if you play, what I was amazed with, right? We came out of the box, didn’t know anybody, Dave was a former public defender, but that as we did it over time, and you show up in court, you get some wins, all of a sudden, you enter that world. Now, it may be that people were fighting it there, you know, if it’s a older white male community, for example, there may be an insular piece, and I’ve seen that. One of the female attorneys that we have used to tell me that one of the original courthouses here, the male lawyers would go around and had a game where they would try to, like, punch each other in the nuts as they walked by, right? That was their sort of hello thing, and she’s sitting there, like, how do I fit into this? Literally, you know, how you mean, because like, that was their sort of, like, good old boy way of dealing with stuff and it was a real thing. So, you know, I think that you can only dance with what you got, similar to how I’ve sort of marketed, you know, some people want a boy lawyer, or something, they want a girl, some like dark hair, some want a blonde, you can’t be everything to all people, you try to put forth something, and you know what, if she’s, hypothetically, the sole female in that market, there’s going to be some percentage of people that want a female attorney, and you know what, for the ones that don’t, she’s either not going to win or she brings a male partner or associate as part of her marketing, but it’s, I think that you, you dance with what you got, right? You came into a place where your dad had gravitas in the federal criminal world and you got boxed out of it for stories you’ve told before on here, and you had to say, okay, well, I’m gonna pivot, I got criminal gravitas, DUI is closed, it’s a profitable widget, let me move there. So, I think it’s, part of it’s reading the market. So, you’re saying what’s the, it’s not just population size, its competition, its money in the market, it’s is it something where it’s all, if nobody’s ever left your market, having a multigenerational practice means a lot more than if it’s a transient town.
So, I wonder, then, you know, is this something where as you are growing your firm, should you take a step back? And I guess the answer is going to be yes because it should, but is it something that is worth some time, actually looking at the demographics of your area, the demographics number one of your legal competitors. For example, in Connecticut, something like 60% of the lawyers in the state of Connecticut are over 70 years old, right? So, there’s a huge opportunity in the coming years, as those lawyers, I guess, die off, retire, whatever, you know, there’s going to be a huge opening for young lawyers who are looking to make something of themselves and hang a shingle and that type of thing, and there’s opportunity for firms that are established to sort of corner markets. You know, right now, I lose, you know, with the gravitas argument, I will lose clients at my firm to some firms or some solo lawyers, who are 80, 85. Now, they’re spry, they’re still out there, I was just talking to an 81-year-old lawyer last Thursday night at dinner, who was talking about playing pickleball and getting out every day and going walking, and he is the sharpest he has ever been, but, you know, at some point, there’s going to be a hole in the market. So, maybe that’s something that people should start to consider, and you should also look at demographic trends, not only of your competitors and where you’re going, but if I were a younger lawyer, and I would say, you know, do I want to get into a battle with, you know, a Ryan McKean up in the Greater Hartford area, so hang a PI shingle? I probably wouldn’t, because he is, you know, young enough that he’s got years, decades ahead of him and he’s got such a tremendous head start, and I don’t really have a passion for that area, maybe I should look into something else. You know, so I think you have to look at the demographics of your people, in your competitors, and I think you need to look at the demographics of your local area to see if they can actually support you to the style you wish to achieve, because if there’s only 250,000 people in your community and 1% of those people get arrested every year, that’s 25,000 people getting arrested. If only half of them get a lawyer, you’re now, you’re down to 12,000 people, and if you’ve got 100 private lawyers in the area, you know, it’s going to be very difficult to make big money, so to speak, off of such a small possible client base, my opinion.
I think it comes down to market research, the things you wish you knew, some of it, and that’s why it’s such a complicated question, right? Because your experience, your desires, market makeup, so things I didn’t know when I started for instance my PI practice, we have contributed in DC, Maryland, Virginia, that really sucks. That’s not a good place to be doing stuff. So, the fact that Ryan McKean’s in a market, is that going to be, you shouldn’t enter that market? Ryan has some great marketing behind it, you know, but that said, he’s one guy, you know, you could make the argument with a juggernaut of a firm, that’s huge at AAJ, a dominant force in the state that is, you know, a super powerhouse. Ryan should say, I shouldn’t even bother with Connecticut at one level, right? There’s a firm that gets most of the mega cases, but Ryan’s done fine for himself. So, my feeling is, first of all, you got to figure out what you like to do, that’s going to make your journey much, much easier. Second, yes. It’s not just population but viable population, again, things that I, you know, I joke in the John Morgan book, he opened a paid museum in the middle of the economic collapse in a city with nothing but free Smithsonian’s, right? Not a great time to start the Museum of Crime and Punishment. That said, in Orlando, where he had his Wonderworks, that property…
Oh! That’s him?
That’s him, you know, that property is, you know, a 40 to $60 widget. Disney is a $1.40 a day, it seems like a bargain for their comedy magic show. So, you know, it’s figuring out where you are, what the laws are. For example, for years, Virginia had his baby DUI with reckless driving and it was crushing it. And over the last few years, the major cities like DC and Philly, where criminal lawyers made a fortune, are decimated. The numbers in those places, the way the prosecutions have changed, drug legalization, lots of good stuff for society, not good for criminal defense lawyers. So it’s market forces with many, many different layers on top of it, and then on top of that is competition of what’s there and how are they marketing. So, if you’re in a market where everybody’s referral based, and you go web, God bless, right? But if you’re in a market where web is not a secret and everybody’s doing it, then all of a sudden, you know, it’s going to take you time to become a, you know, a word of mouth person. So, I think it is so multifaceted, depends, but it really is not impossible, but you just want to make smart decisions, some of it by happenstance. History is written by the victor, right? You came into Connecticut when nobody, you know, similarly, nobody was really pushing online, and you were able to make inroads that starting today, you probably couldn’t because you have a gazillion reviews, and that being one of the touch points, somebody else is going to take several years to be in your league.
Well, that, yeah, I mean, that’s definitely something that has happened. I wonder, you know, I wonder, if someone were to be starting out, you know, is it, what do they have to commit to, right? Like, I mean, we’ve heard that thing, you know, I was watching last weeks or two weeks ago’s Billions last night with my wife, we’re trying to catch up, and they brought in the advisor, and I don’t know if you watch the show… So, so Mike Prince is the new, you know, boogey man, I guess that they’re having, he’s got this…
I still have the season to catch up.
Okay, so Mike Prince, it brings in his advisory panel, and it’s a bunch of, you know, smart outside thinkers. And one of the people that is there is Seth Godin. I was surprised that Malcolm Gladwell wasn’t around the table, right? Because he has those types of thinkers, as…
Gladwell is not Hollywood, Godin will go there for the fee. I love Godin, he’s awesome.
Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. So, and it was interesting. And they were talking about things that I was thinking about, you know, I started explain to my wife the Purple Cow, which is what I read, you know, 20 years ago, got me interested in that type of thing. And then I, we started, I actually remarked, Gladwell is not there. I wonder, you know, the whole 10,000 hours thing, does that still apply? What, you know, do you have to put in that much time or effort into something…
Like forget the exact number but yeah, like, it’s number of cases and you know that. The difference between somebody who’s done this a few times and it gets into, there’s a reason as you move up in jets with more complications that you get, you need more hours in the cockpit to do it.
Right. Speaking of jets, I was thinking that maybe these guys who have been drafting for the Jets for the last decade need to spend more time studying because they’ve made some terrible, terrible choices. But anyway, let’s move on.
What I want to say is, look, it’s a combination, the more you can make an educated decision, the better, but I would also say that, you know, it’s funny, I listen to Gary Vee a lot, you’re in your 20s, you come out of law school, 24, 25, part of it is just getting some freaking experience and learning. I looked at my first jobs is, like, how do you deal with a boss? How do you deal with clients? How do you deal with staff? You know, what are those people skills, and it better if it transfers to your next job, you’re not throwing that out when you make that pivot, but if you know where you want to be, generally you take a shot at something that might go in that direction, great, but remember, Jay, a lot of people come out of school, and it’s the JLB, they want to start paying down debt and paying for weddings. So, it’s a combination, I’ll tell you this, I made no secret that I’ve struggled to be able to recruit viable family law talent. Had a great call this morning with somebody that made that may go somewhere, but it is really hard to build that up partially because the personalities involved, other people choose to be in that space. Some of the people who have made it have done been very, very successful, and that intermediate step between when somebody knows what they’re doing before they’re sort of locked in somewhere, is a smaller area. I would say, you’re talking about coming out of the situation we’re in if you can stomach the family law space right now, insane opportunity, like, you can’t make less than six figures once you know family law, period. Whereas you see in other areas, you know, the ascension of money in the non-corporate world and that space, incredible. The demand is high, and finding people that are not broken to do it is extremely challenging.
Absolutely, absolutely. Well, and finding people is something that I want to talk about a little bit more. And because we, you know, a lot of us who have had, you know, a large number of people in and out of our firm may come across this problem. I’ve had it in the past, I’ll ask if you’ve had it in the past and how you’ve dealt with it. What do you do when you have somebody who is good at their job, making money, but just can’t get along with your team? You know, and in a firm like ours, I mean, technically, I guess I’m a mid-sized firm here in Connecticut, where you can, you know, so we’re not a solo adding one new person that can’t get along with somebody but, you know, you’ve got, you know, five to ten lawyers and one of the lawyers just doesn’t play well with others. How do you handle that when they are a revenue generator, right?
So, the first thing is, you know, the one deal killer is, you can’t have them in the house poisoning everybody. Just like in BluShark, if there’s a client, no matter how much they’re making, that is causing problems, losing one employee is such a disrupter that we have to really, you know, I’ve made this, had this discussion with a number of firms, saying, look, whoever our point person is on this can’t be it, and if you need them to be at, we’re not a good match for you, sort of like firing not because of anything other than agita to employees. So, I look at it this way, as much money as they’re making, if you lose two or three people, is that going to be worth it? Your top people, assuming that, but what I have done, not saying this as a model to be followed, what I have done when I’ve had some of those people, historically, and I’ve had two or three over the years, I’ve made sure they’re at a satellite office away from everybody else. We had a lawyer from the PI practice years ago, nice enough guy, decent lawyer, but weird, and he, you know, at the office holiday party made a number of women actively uncomfortable, who are not wallflowers, these are women that can hold their own in criminal court. And I was like, hey, we want to keep you as part of the team, but you’re going to work from a WeWork or wherever, you know, not marketing wise, you will come into the office once a week or, you know, as needed for meetings with your partner, but you can’t play in the sandbox because we’re going to lose too many people, and held that for a couple of years. I’ve done that with other people, but I think there’s a break point where, at least in my world, right? You have an accounting person, you have a marketing person, you have an intake person, it’s gonna take a toll on those people. And so, any and all, and so, what somebody who seems profitable, it’s not a free lunch, and that it is a constant struggle in that, the right answer, just get rid of them and that probably would make me more money, but I’m one of those guys, a pleaser as you would say, where I’m attempting to keep those, you know, balanced that and when I’d like to have my cake and eat it too, and when possible, get the person out of day to day, so that they’re just a, you know, the VA version of a lawyer doing substantive work.
Yeah, I mean, you know, the biggest challenge you have in many of these situations is that, you know, you like the revenue stream that they generate and you don’t want to have to have an influx of clients that they are perfectly capable of handling, dumped back on the rest of the team if you try to, you know, if you have to get rid of that person, right? I mean, you know, if they’re self sufficient and have good relationships with your clients, but there is something about the culture fit of the office. And if people just don’t want to do business with you, it can ruin your…
I’m assuming the person can… right? Meaning, let’s assume the person is bringing in business, the clients are not running away, but there’s an acerbic world around them, right? That becomes problematic, and it’s, you can manage it, but then it’s your time managing it, it’s a pound of flesh on your managers, and it’s a pound of flesh on the staff that’s to deal with them. So, it is a dilemma.
And the dilemma is even more now, because you can’t just go out to the market and pick a new, you know, person that just slide into that role. It could take you nine months to a year or more to find the right person with the right experience, who’s able to slide into a role like that now.
So in the PI situation that I had, I said, you know what, I want somebody who can try the cases under 100k, just wind him up, send him to court. And so, for me, I was able to say, hey, these files don’t, there’s not a huge discovery on these things, work these up yourself, you have support remotely, go to court, we won some, we lost some, but every time you won one, it was a knock to the insurance company. I loved it, and so, I was able to keep that balance by literally keeping the person out of the office and away from holiday parties.
But well, let me ask you something about this though, you know, in light of what’s going on with the availability of new teammates, are you of the position that you should always be recruiting? Because I got some pushback from my office, when we had to, we got, we moved two people out of the firm, one left to start her own firm, another one we let go because of some reshuffling of organizational duties. And, you know, I said, well, let’s put up a job ad now to see who we can get to come in and the pushback was, well, we just got rid of two people. Why do we want to announce that we’re hiring? And I said, well, because we need to be looking for the next great person that can join our firm, and they said, but what does that say about the people who are no longer with us? I’m like, well, they didn’t fit in. And so, you know, there was, I guess…
I’m confused, they’re saying it would look bad on the firm because you’re hiring people?
Because we’re hiring people so soon.
I say this rarely, Jay, like utter and complete nonsense. Get out, I don’t know what narrative is going on, I don’t know what the storyline is, always be hiring. You’re not going to, look, several things, those people are there at their discretion, they could be gone tomorrow. So, you know, look at BluShark, we had a key player that was given a very sweet offer, we were able to talk him out of a signed offer to stay. We just had a second one, I don’t know which way it’s gonna go. If you’re not constantly out there looking, what is, at best, you’re getting two weeks’ notice.
I’m not even getting that.
I’m saying that, so, at two weeks you’re not going to have a replacement in there. I think that you, it’s malpractice, business malpractice, not to do it now. Now look, have I run into issues over the years? I’ve had people thinking that I’m hiring for their job. We’ve gotten where I’m literally just, you know, to me, I want 1000 different irons in the fire, and I’d say the only negative to that is it looks like there must be huge turnover because you have all these ads out. To me, it’s the opposite. I’m looking for talent. I have two choices, you know, use very expensive recruiters, exclusively, and have no ads out there, or if you have five paralegals, that means that if you keep people for two years, you’re going to be looking for a paralegal a year. And, you know, and that’s, you know, let’s say you keep people for longer, you may be growing, you have other people that burnout, you have maternity leave situations, like talent, getting talent, look, I had a sign on my desk when I started BluShark, applies just as much the law firm. It’s an HR play, like for us, like I don’t want people to think it’s, you know, that we are, the fact that somebody left and you’re, that’s what you do, that’s what a business is. You know, you’re managing human resources and you know, look, I have a question. If you had a spigot you could turn on, and I could give you, you know, a couple admin, and a couple lawyers that knew what they were doing. Could you make more money now than you were, like next year going forward, than you make right now if I gave you quality employees that could come in the door?
Absolutely.
So, my question to you is, why would you not always be hiring because… part of the reason I ended up with a large firm was, hey, if I add this person, I make more money, If I add this…. So, just like PPC, started $1,000, made money, 2,000, 20,000, oh, well, that’s a little much, lets go down to 15. So, my point is, if, again, and you can get carried away with this, and you may not want it, I’m not saying you should emulate it, because you may want a smaller firm, it’s a little, you know, slightly less revenue, slightly less take home, but it’s more profitable, etc. Use more expense as you go more, but my point is, the idea that you are, there are people that if you found this, you’d hand them a practice group. If I found you a turnkey worker’s comp guide, I don’t recommend it, you could then go and run a practice based on your marketing. If you had a DUI lawyer, at the opposite end of the state, who wanted to work that market, you could make them money. If you found a family law person that you loved, that would make you money. So, to me, if you had a recruiter that you paid X amount to, let’s say, five grand a month, and they could find you a bunch of these people, God bless.
I like that, I like that. You know, I think the reality is I think, number one in this market you almost have to be putting up a new ad every week, if you’re going to put it up on something like Indeed, you’re going to have to put some money behind it or you’re have to constantly be posting it. Maybe that’s something you outsource to understand, right? Right, but that may be something that you need to do, because also you never know who could be looking at any particular time. You know, this week, nobody’s looking, next week three people are looking because they just got pissed off at their boss.
It’s just like dating, I use the analogy all the time, right? You gotta be on the apps, hey, I’m sick of this app, I’m going to try this app. Again, you know, assuming that your goal is to find a mate. If your goal is to find this, and there’s stuff that isn’t part of it, you can only prioritize so much stuff at once, but I am a big fan of continuing to look for talent. Look, the other piece that would show you is where the markets at, because that’s the piece I got caught short, Red Handed or, you know, pants down was, you know, recent college grads, you know, I didn’t really care until the market spoke and said, hey, the market moved and you didn’t, you know, those were the other reason to be recruiting. So, this is awesome, Jay.
And this is a good day, good day. A lot of things that just sort of sit back and think about. So, folks, we’re gonna end it here for this edition of Maximum Growth Live. As always, if you want to follow us, you can catch us live at… 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific. I’ve been doing this for three years and I still can’t get it right, but you just got to bear with me, Seth. Of course, if you want to catch us on the go, you can download our podcast every week, it’s released right after this show wherever podcasts are available. If you want to keep in touch with Seth, you can follow his Law Firm Insider or his SEO Insider, both available on the BluShark YouTube page, as well as plenty of other opportunities for you to follow Seth, I mean, he is just a fount of knowledge in all things digital. And if you want to keep in touch with me, please join my Systemizing Your Law Firm for growth, a Facebook group which is growing by leaps and bounds, and I put up some PI stuff there recently, I’m gonna get back to doing some criminal and I even found some old family law systems I’m going to be posting for the people that do that, try to give as much value to people that are out there. Although, Seth, we are getting a lot of requests for marketing systems and I know you guys at BluShark gave us that thing on how to set up and optimize a GMB. So, we may tap your guys to give us some more ideas.
We’ll continue… yeah, we will certainly be there in days to come.
Awesome. Any other questions, Seth? Anything else you want to talk about?
Have a great week.
Have a great week, folks. We’ll see you next week. Bye for now.
Subcribe to our newletter to receive news on update
