Jay Ruane  00:07

Hello, hello, and welcome to this edition of the Law Firm Blueprint. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane. And with me as always, is my man, Seth  Price hanging out over there. Bright red shirt today, Seth, I’m not used to be you being so dramatic. 

 

Jay Ruane  00:20

I was at the the Oshie retirement party last night. My boys are like, we’re going, it’s one of those free things. You go. They didn’t say it was a retirement party, but we knew it was. Outdoors in the shadows of my first law office when I was a baby lawyer in Georgetown, overlooking the water. There’s this great complex, and this is where the fountain was, where the Caps jumped into the fountain. So perhaps I’m channeling my inner Caps Stanley Cup Champion jumping in fountain energy with this shirt. 

 

Jay Ruane  00:48

Okay, I can appreciate that. I can appreciate that. Actually that brings me to a post you made on LinkedIn that I think we should talk about. You talk about today, about how you know big law wasn’t the destination for everybody coming out of law school, 50% of the classes in the bottom 50%. So you know, why don’t you talk a little bit about that and and what caused you to post that on LinkedIn? Because it was getting some traction. 

 

Seth Price  01:17

So look, there is a game on LinkedIn that a bunch of our friends and now myself play, where we’re sort of putting ideas out there. It’s great. And you know, I’ve done a bunch of sharing about people that have been important to my business and the career, and about obstacles. In fact, the one that I did on gaps on resumes, went viral by LinkedIn standards, you know, a top legal post of the year, potentially, like it was huge, hundreds of 1000s of impressions. The piece that I see formulaic is, I was a screw up in law school, and now I’m a massive success, right? And while that’s awesome, and I’m thrilled for the person who does that, and there’s whatever it takes. There’s a certain degree of burning the boats and not having any options and having to succeed, which I love. And many of the people you know who have succeeded in this civil practice of personal injury and mass torts are people that didn’t go to the top law school, that are amazing, trial are all great. But this idea that you know, the road to success is failure and then, and then that’s going to make you successful. It seems a bit trite, and that, while there are great stories and they resonate, and you’re playing off to the people who won’t make the 50% that are in the bottom half, and say, “What am I going to do now?” Great, but I don’t think that’s like an aspirational path. You could do well in law school and still have an amazing career, and that it shouldn’t be that you’re aspiring to do badly, because that’s the path to success.

 

Jay Ruane  02:52

Well and I think there’s a little bit of context that I think is necessary. Those are people who are successful, but percentage wise, I know some people that were screw ups in law school that are still screw ups that I see around. Like you know that they’re struggling to get by as a solo because they couldn’t make it in a firm. They’re barely making it by. They’re taking some chances that maybe they shouldn’t take, or they’ve left law altogether. I mean, I think it’s, you know, it’s interesting that there’s all these people posting their story on LinkedIn, but it’s like you’re preaching to the choir, right? The people who need to hear that message are probably not active on LinkedIn because they’re just scraping by, and they don’t necessarily want to be on a platform where they see all these other people having great success, and there’s a lot of puffery, it seems to me, on LinkedIn about how great people are doing. I mean, look I wear as a badge of honor. I started my first two years as a lawyer. 18 months, I was making $100 a day, if I mean, I was making $500 a week. And I was bartending. I was working at bars, trying to scrape by. And I don’t take that as being I did poorly in law school. I was an average student. B average, I guess I just knew that big law wasn’t for me, and I knew I had to start out and scrape to get to where I was going to be. And yeah, I had to hustle. But you know, that wasn’t necessarily thrust upon me because of my grades. It was more the choice that I had made and knowing, with eyes open, what the law practice was going to be for me.

 

Seth Price  04:33

Right? And that, look, there are people I love, Gary V he’s been inspirational, and have gotten a lot out of it, but this, I clearly had an X factor. Great. That’s awesome. Gary Vee started in a $5 million a year wine business. This is my beef with Gary V Gary, if you’re listening, I don’t think you are, but Gary, if you’re listening, or anybody out there who holds him up as a success story. Gary’s father had already had a lease on a building. Had connections with the wine distributors, had credit card processing set up. Probably had a health insurance set up. Gary was able to amplify that business by taking it online and doing Wine Library and all that stuff. But Gary didn’t have to start off with, where do I buy pens from? Like Gary’s doing a big disservice to entrepreneurs out there, because he’s saying, “Look, I grew my business into a $60 million year operation.” It’s a lot easier to go from 5 to 60 than it is from 0 to 500%. 

 

Seth Price  05:31

That’s the Trump story, right? Like, you know, Dad already had a multi but look, let’s, let’s take it back. This was a wine business. It was a, you know, immigrant-based wine business that was doing, you know, a decent clip. But what’s different was, this is a guy who had failed during this in the school world, according to himself, who now figured out how to crack the code of drawing attention. Found a burgeoning technology. And so to me, that’s the lesson, which is, you know, it’s making the most of wherever you are. You’re saying, “Hey, don’t you know, this wasn’t a guy with zero” if you’re sitting there, you know, with no parents that have done nothing, you have no capital to begin with. It’s, it’s much, much harder. But I’ll say, look, I give Gary V mad props, which is, there are plenty of people that worked in their dad’s wine store and shelled and then the store died as the Internet came and they lost their job, and then they had to reinvent themselves, doing whatever. So to me, he took a wine store and basically made into something that was huge and different, not what the basic concept.

 

Jay Ruane  06:39

 I mean, I mean, I could say that I did the exact same thing. I mean, I didn’t build an almost eight figure criminal defense practice. I mean, hopefully, you know, knock on the closest what I can find, we may cross that barrier this year. I don’t think we’re going to make it this year, but I’m thinking maybe next year. But, like, I didn’t start from from zero. You know, granted, my father did not have business practices, but he had a reputation in the community. We had a name, we had, you know, a built in client base that I was able to then, you know, 

 

Seth Price  07:10

Understood. So Andrew Finkelstein, one of the best business entrepreneurial learners who know, still, you know, basically took over his dad’s juggernaut practice in upstate New York, but he’s the one who said, Hey, let’s bring in this third party brand of Jacoby & Myers, and then blow out the TV with that. Not some regional brand in upstate New York, or they wouldn’t call it upstate New York, but Orange County. So the point, I guess, let’s bring it back to this piece, which is, it’s many of the stories there. I always say, don’t let the truth get the way of a good story. That was the saying at the bars in Australia. You know, I say that what gets views and clicks on LinkedIn very often sounds great is preaching to the choir, is what you were saying. It reminds me a lot of some of the evangelical worlds that I visited when I was in the Midwest for a period where you have to sin to be saved, and it was almost like, here’s your ticket to do what you want, so that you can come back and then give this great speech about how you’re saved. I hope that people don’t take this as, hey, I need you know it’s okay to be in the bottom of your class, not because you can do great things afterwards, which you can, but that you should aspire for whatever you’re doing. To me, it was a game. Law school was a game. I’m a dyslexic guy with ADHD. You know, they didn’t know what ADHD was, then somehow figured out how to play that game well enough to get decent grades that mean anything? No, but it certainly has opened up doors and opportunities I wouldn’t have had otherwise. And so my point is, there’s good with each of it. God bless. If you made it without it and did it, which is going to be the sexy story, but to me, it’s, what can you do if you’re in law school, to double down and crack the code on law school? Because if you’re going to pay the money and be there for three years, you know, you have a bunch of things you can do. One is find the firm you want to work at, or a firm you want to work at, get experience and say, You know what I’m going to punt on grades, I’m just going to focus on the practice, or I’m going to play this game, so that I have something that may give me a leg up with a first job and experience. And so for me, I, you know, spent a couple years inside of a, you know, of what it was, you know, a big, a big firm. I learned a hell of a lot, not necessarily the substance. I was terrible at it, but I saw how the operations worked. I saw how people scaled. I saw mid level managers. I saw stuff that if I had never been introduced into that world, I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to see. And I think that those were building blocks that were valuable on that journey and that path. It’s not, I’m not trying to put down the other it’s just, it seems that it’s a sort of click bait towards for LinkedIn of if I did, if I was really, really bad at something, then I’m going to get more of an audience, because there’s this whole half of the world that wants to see that versus, you know, here are the things that I did, right and I appreciate those that much more.

 

Jay Ruane  10:01

Gotcha, okay, all right, why don’t we pivot away? I got a couple of questions I got to ask you, just because I want to get your your input on something so we had, we’ve had a run of really good remote people, one of whom had a baby, had a husband who had some medical issues, and just was overwhelmed by our work here, and just said, you know, I got to step away. I got to step away and really focus on the stuff that I need to focus on. And now I hear that she’s out looking for some, you know, a small amount of work, you know, 10-15, hours a week. I just recently lost my EA, and I’m thinking, I already know this woman. I know what she’s capable of. Should I bring her back, or have we moved on from her? 

 

Seth Price  10:49

Well, for those of you listening, I’m laughing hysterically on the other end, because this is not planned, literally going through the exact same thing at the exact same time for the last three to four years. Almost four years, we had a rock star, Tim, on our team doing my travel personal assistants. He’s the one who schedules our podcasts. And, you know, he was awesome. He went through some, and this is even more extreme, went through some issues, trying to keep it general, and the work suffered. It wasn’t great. We were we kind of crashed and burned. We parted ways, and he went off to do his thing, and we went off to find a replacement, and we were unsuccessful. We made a hire. Was not a great fit, and he tried to go to his next opportunity, and turned out there was no job waiting for him. So the grass wasn’t always greener. And we, you know, a whatsapp text on one weekend was almost like with it with an ex girlfriend, yeah, I miss you. I miss you. And you know, against all best business practices brought him back, and thankfully, our podcast is going live because of him. And my book, my trips are getting booked. And there’s a it was a hole. I missed him tremendously because he was my right arm for a very long time. And so I’m taking a huge risk. You know, the odds the book would tell you, once somebody leaves, whether their choice or your choice, you shouldn’t be coming back. But maybe the question is, when do you break the rules? And in this case, we’re having a good run so far, and I’m cautiously optimistic, trying to build more look at what mistakes we may have made in the past, as far as, oh, you know, lack of safeguards for burnout and lack of safeguards for not lack of safeguards, but giving opportunity for an on ramp for more potential. But we’re rolling the dice. So Jay, I as of today, I’ve all for giving this thing a second go around.

 

Jay Ruane  12:53

Well tune in next week, folks, when he says, “run away, run away.” I hope that.

 

Seth Price  12:58

Tim is a rock star, and I really, I’m very, very optimistic that we, you know, just needed a reset. And look, that brings up a bigger question. If you have somebody at your firm, right. This is throwing a Jay like question at Jay. You have somebody at your firm who does a good job for an extended period of time, and they’re hitting hard times for whatever reason, right? Not talking about Tim specifically, whether it be pregnancy, postpartum, whether it be divorce, we’re seeing a lot of that. We’re seeing issues with mental health of all different forms and fashions. What is this? If you were playing the long game, and you know that the next nine months are going to be miserable, right? What should you do in not hindsight, in foresight, we’re going to have these situations come up, what should you be doing? Should you be giving somebody a full leave of absence? Should you go to part time work? Should you just acknowledge the fact that this is going to be rough and that I’m going to get substandard work for period? How can you positively going forward knowing that we’re going to have these two people have issues? How do we prevent the bottoming out where you can’t come back together? You know, in personal relationships, sometimes you might, you know, take a little bit of time, give a little bit of breathing. 

 

Jay Ruane  14:25

We’re on a break type of thing.

 

Seth Price  14:27

Exactly. That also comes with problems, because on that break, they might take another job, or they might do so. The question is, how can we best knowing that these are part of life and the world all of these issues. How can we do things that would allow that person to be with us longer term and not just lose them on the dip? 

 

Jay Ruane  14:47

Well, one of the benefits we have being in my blue state, is that we have a paid family leave program so that if someone needs to leave for four months, they can opt into that. We pay it as part of their salary goes into insurance fund with the state, and they can get paid, I think, 60.

 

Seth Price  15:03

Understood, so should we have that in our state that’s not eligible for that? 

 

Jay Ruane  15:07

So we do. So we do. We what we have decided, even for, even for our non-Connecticut based remote employees that are in the United States. So, you know, I have people in Florida, Minnesota and Iowa, I mean, basically all over, right? And so even though their states may not have that program, we honor it so everybody has access to that. And so do the remote employees. I try to make everybody who is not based in Connecticut be on the same standing and yes, it does cost. 

 

Seth Price  15:38

God bless. But I’m gonna push you one step, which is, we talk ease, and we’re talking our stated topic for today, before we got on, which we haven’t even gotten to, is saving money. One of those ways is being lean. So when you’re lean and somebody’s like, hey, I need four months off, that’s a big hit because you’re not staffed up for it. And so the question is, I think, as entrepreneurs, we push I can speak for myself. It’s sort of the good and bad it’s gotten me, you know, couple businesses and all this stuff. But it’s it. You know, your inclination is not to take the foot off the gas pedals, against every instinct we have. And here we are having to say, Okay, well, if I’m looking if I want Tim with me for 10 years, not four years, I may need to take my foot off the gas pedal. Easier said than done. 

 

Jay Ruane  16:26

It is easier said than done. However, six months goes really quickly and 

 

Seth Price  16:34

easier said than done. Yes, who is doing your who’s doing your stuff when you’re out? 

 

Jay Ruane  16:38

Well, that’s the thing I right now nobody is and it’s and it’s, it’s falling on me, and I’m missing some things because I’m otherwise occupied on some of the bigger things that I want to push forward with. That’s why I need to bring somebody in. That’s why I’m saying, hey, if I have somebody who’s already familiar with our calendaring and our emailing and knows the people that are in the office and I trust to be able to book things. Who has booked things for us in the past. I mean, you know, this is, it seems like it’s a good fit, 

 

Seth Price  17:10

how much of that? So there’s a cost to Jay. Jay is now, literally, I spent Memorial Day weekend. I spent three hours booking travel for the next quarter because I was without somebody. So the question is, what is, you know, you know, where do you you know, it’s, it’s not, it’s not a free lunch. But at the same time, if you’re willing to pay, you know, if I’m willing to do that, and, you know, give somebody the breathing space, in theory, I’ll have a long term solution and a loyal person over the long haul.

 

Jay Ruane  17:41

True. Speaking of travel, and this is not something that we talked about, but I got a little humble brag going on here. So last week I was, I channeled my inner Seth Price, and I went out to speak in Dallas. Awesome. 

 

Seth Price  17:56

Jay is out of the house. What’s going on out of the house? 

 

Jay Ruane  17:58

Friend says, hey, I want you to come speak. And I said, of course, anything for you, Deandra, I’ll come out and I’ll give a presentation. So I’m waiting to get on my flight to come back Dallas to New York. And I say, Dude, that’s Cornel West, that’s waiting online to get on this plane. How cool would it be if I wound up sitting next to him? I wound up sitting next to him. 

 

Seth Price  18:21

No!

 

Jay Ruane  18:22

I got two hours and 47 minutes of a private lecture/life. I got two and a half hours of Dr. Cornel West telling me about theology and political, political stuff, and what is he thinks his next books is going to be about. And, I mean, it was, I mean, literally, like, I sat down with him, and I was like, I’m putting away the computer. I’m putting away. 

 

Seth Price  18:48

Wish you left it on record. 

 

Jay Ruane  18:50

Oh god, I you know what? I didn’t even think about that.

 

Seth Price  18:53

new technologies, little things that record th

 

Jay Ruane  18:56

I have one of those I actually use that. It’s a plot device, P, L, A, U D. Folks, I can’t tell you how awesome it was. I have a My youngest daughter has severe learning disabilities, double deficit dyslexia, and last week, I had to go to the parent teacher conferences while my wife was at another school doing parent teacher conferences at the end of the year. I wore one of those things and PLAUD It’s awesome. And I used it to sit in with agreement of all of the teachers that I went and I got peppered with questions when I got home. Well, what about writing? What about math? And I was able to say, Hold on a second. Here’s the summary. Here’s the AI summary. You can read it all. I didn’t miss a thing. It was amazing. 

 

Seth Price  19:45

The next thing is, will you be able to be a guy’s night for poker while your device is there with the nanny? 

 

Jay Ruane  19:54

Yeah, I don’t know.

 

Seth Price  19:55

I joke, but look maybe not in that space. Specific instance. But is this going to mean like, okay, it takes me to a question, which is, we all sign up for different webinars and lectures and things like that. And then the question is, we, you know, time comes. It’s that day. Have you blocked the time? Right? You know, are you now? You know, is it? Is the AI assistant now elevating this? Because my biggest pet peeve, as I’ve scaled is I’ll send a single team member to something, whether it be out of town or online, and I’m like one, this is the ticket to go, which is you have to summarize and bring it back to the team for discussion. I probably get that 30 cents on the dollar.

 

Jay Ruane  20:43

We record it. Run the transcript through otter. Run the transcript through Claude with a prompt, taking me the best takeaways. And not only that, how would we apply it? Because Claude knows in our master prompt what our office is set up with pods and our revenue and our target. And I’ll get actionable items out of that. 

 

Seth Price  21:03

So good friend of the show, David Hayden, we talk with nuggets. That’s, that’s our we go to a conference. You got any nuggets? What are the nuggets? And this essentially, in theory, two, three days, four days away from the office in the future, will be condensable into one. 

 

Jay Ruane  21:20

We should just, we should just go to the factory in China buy it and call it the nuggetizer. And, I mean, if nothing else, we could sell it to David Hale.

 

Seth Price  21:28

exactly. Yeah, that is, that is awesome. What else we talked about today? We talked about saving money a bunch over the years. We always talk about, you know, top 20% of expenses problem, some of those are harder to move because a lot of those are rent that you’re locked into for a period of time, long term contracts with software companies, things like that. How do you balance, you know, the you know, when we, when we started, started this podcast, or our friendship, go back even further. You know, we were running these as our own sort of, you know, versions of ourselves. You’ve been, you know, you’re a very generous guy. You pick up tabs at a rate that I’ve never seen from any else. I try to learn from that. I think that’s wise, and that’s good use of money. But when it comes to expenses within the office and how you how you spend and especially as you scale, we talk about mid level managers, when you have people making decisions that are now two steps away from you. How do you bring like you’re not in? You know you’re not you know you don’t have venture funding. In a venture funding AI company tons of cash to spend. You’re sitting there with a finite thing, with modest growth year over year, with, with different obstacles. How do you make sure that same, you know, belt tightening that got you there is imparted as the team expands and builds and grows? 

 

Jay Ruane  22:56

I think it’s part of your culture, and it’s something that you need to be consciously talking about, you know, throughout the year and at your meetings and that type of thing. We have a policy in our office we don’t buy pens. And that’s part of the onboarding process. Like, hey, guess what? It’s very easy to just go on Amazon and have them send you 48 pens, but I guarantee you, if you take 30 seconds and look, you’ll find a pen we have. We had so many pens. And this goes back. This goes back when we rehab the office that we’re in. We, you know, we gutted it and rebuilt it in a manner that was more fitting for the firm that we were becoming. Got rid of the pool table in the bar, basically, that we had in our old office, and repurposed the space because we had more people. But one of the things that we did when we were gutting it is we had to pack up and move into flex space for, you know, a three month period. And the number, sheer number of pens and boxes of pens that we order, that we had on, I mean, we probably had 4000 pens, and so we came together, and we just said, let’s have a policy. We don’t buy pens. We don’t just go.

 

Seth Price  24:14

I got you look. This was, this was a real life experience. It was a farewell party for somebody. They bought chicken wings for eight people, and the bill was almost $450.

 

Jay Ruane  24:26

Oh, 

 

Seth Price  24:26

you know, again, it blows your look and the quick look. We put rules in place. It’s a process problem. We now have a process. We have approved vendors and so. But I balance between this because I look something I’ve very much admired about you is that when I was the guy who would sort of like in a business group dinner, hope that I didn’t pick up the check, you were the guy who always did. And I’ve become more Jay, I like to pick up the check now brings joy, and I get it. I

 

Jay Ruane  24:56

I want to add an $8,000 check in Iceland. That was tough. Yeah.

 

Seth Price  25:00

Well, so, you know, look, I’m not that much, Jay. I have a video, but Jay Jr, so the question is…Is there? This is what now I’m struggling with this, pens. Great. You have your metaphor, right? Would you be better off spending $150 a year on pens, not, not having people think about it, even though there’s going to be a box of pens when you’re when you’re done, and have those moments of life focused on something making more money that like is this, and that’s where I’m torn, because, look, I want to keep expenses low. But the question is, if you went and opened another office, found another lawyer, did whatever it was that was going to make you more money. Would that be a better use of Jay time then? Or, you know, then focusing on the pens. 

 

Jay Ruane  25:52

Here’s the thing. I set the culture of no more pens. I’m not buying pens. But that means that 49 other people aren’t buying pens. Those 49 people aren’t thinking, how do we make more money? They’re thinking about executing the job that’s in front of them that day. 

 

Seth Price  26:11

No, no, understood, but that’s you can only That’s okay. I’ll push back, which is, you can only impart so many things on people, right? And if the answer is, do you get reviews, or do you save money on pens? Let’s take that. You have one thing they’re going to remember. People can only remember so many things of the Jay mantra. If the mantra is, I need reviews, and each review, my mantra is, is worth $1,000 to Jay, would you rather them have the focus on that, or pens, and then I start to come, I struggle with it. I mean, it’s not an easy answer. The answer both, maybe, but is that the best use of mantra, we don’t buy pens, or is it we, you know, we care about reviews and nothing else, and that, that’s the you know, everything has an option. 

 

Jay Ruane  26:59

I don’t think you can have one thing in a law firm like yours, like, I don’t think you can say we’re only focusing on reviews. Because if my firm only focuses on reviews other stuff.

 

Seth Price  27:14

it’s not only this is not only, but it’s if there’s which is, like, if you’re slotting each thing, they can remember one thing. What do you want them to remember in the old days? It might have been, helped me get a link. It could be, you know, let’s get it. If you’re a PI firm, let’s get one more referral partner. It may be one more call to the clients. The question is, again, I’m sorry, 

 

Jay Ruane  27:36

honestly, I want it all, 

 

Seth Price  27:38

right, but you’re not getting it all, 

 

Jay Ruane  27:40

but I’m not getting it all in anything. So if I can add the whole, just the mindset of, hey, let’s be cognizant. Because if the if we’re spending more money on pens, that’s more money that can’t go to raises if we’re spending more money, you know, if 

 

Seth Price  27:53

understood, no, no, and look, it’s the metaphor for saving money, right? 

 

Jay Ruane  27:57

That’s and that’s the thing. 

 

Seth Price  27:58

It’s what I’m saying is, I have now struggled. I did a decent job when it was flat, but as it scaled, the people that are, you know, there, and now I have to determine, how much do I put a thumb on the scale there? I’ll do it look great. Example, we had a great holiday party at my holiday party, so summer kickoff at my house. It was awesome. And I did something where, in the past, we paid three, $4,000 for a caterer. And this time, I’m like, This is silly. All the fancy Georgetown parties literally use Costco catering. They buy a bunch of stuff at Costco, they throw it in an oven, they pass some hors d’oeuvres out. And as you know from other podcasts, we do beer and wine in sangria. You know, liquor bill is not crazy. The whole party with, you know, was, was under $1,000 with $500 in labor. It was, it was for 70 people, beautiful outdoor party by the pool. The question is, you know, where? But it took more sweat equity to get that done. And so I’m always thinking, am I, am I pushing? You know, is if paying $3,000 to an outside caterer that comes in and just does everything, is that something that would elevate or does it not make that much of a difference? And it’s your team can do both. They can both, yeah, as well as this, 

 

Jay Ruane  29:20

I think it comes down in those situations. It comes down to the people that you have on your team, and that’s going to make a difference. You know, for me in my office, I’ll tell you right now, if we were to do an event like that, it’d be Costco catering, and we’d be fine with it, because, you know, we’ve got 43 kids under 10 among all my employees. And if everyone’s coming over and we’re having a pool party, you know, it’s all about the kids, and nobody gives a shit about the food. And you know the exactly, if you’re having IPAs or if you’re having Bud Light, like nobody cares, right? In other situations, people may care. So that’s, see, that’s the thing. You have to be intentional on how you spend money in your firm. I think that’s the takeaway. You know, if, if, for you, you are doing Trust and Estates practice, and you bring the people in, and you have a big signing, you know, event you want something other than a pen from the local bank that has the bank’s name on it that’s being used. You probably want to get a nice cross pen. And you could present them to the client after they’ve signed their trusts and their estates and their wills and all that crap and saying, Here’s a nice pen from us that you’re going to keep forever. Lobby, blabbity blah, you know, for us, very cool plane. 

 

Seth Price  30:39

I think the internet is telling us that it is time to go. 

 

Jay Ruane  30:43

Okay, that’s cool, folks, that’s gonna do it for us. I mean, I get back to I think it really comes down to how intentional your office is on what areas, and you should always be looking at the bottom line, because that’s the profit, right? And it’s very easy to run a non profitable law firm. It’s a lot harder to run a profitable law firm. So that’s the takeaway I have for you folks today that’s gonna do it for us here at the Law Firm Blueprint. Of course, you can catch us every time you go some place by taking us on the go with the law firm blueprint podcast. Be sure to give us a five star review when you do listen to it. And of course, if you want to catch this show live, catch it live at 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific. Live in our Facebook group, the law firm, blueprint, and also live on LinkedIn with our man, Seth J, price, that’s gonna do it for me. I’m Jay Ruane. He is. Seth, price, that’s it for us. Bye for now.