S2 E32: Talking lead triage and too much positivity

Talking toxic positivity versus the positivity you need to be a entrepreneur and what to triage when leads drop.

What’s In This Episode?

  • Welcome to Maximum Growth Live.
  • The ebbs and flows of a B2C law firm’s sales.
  • The place where most people see an issue when there’s a hole in the bucket.
  • What’s going on in the probate industry?
  • Where can you check your leads?
  • If your leads are off, check your forms.
  • The positive side of positivity.
  • Do not get caught up in positivity and become blind to reality.

Transcript

Jay Ruane

Hello, hello and welcome to another edition of maximum growth live. I'm one of your hosts Jay Ruane, CEO of flex and managing partner of Ruane Attorneys, a civil rights and criminal defense firm here in Connecticut. With me as always, my man, Seth Price, down their new digs in the Delmarva Peninsula area. I saw, I mentioned Delmarva the other day, but Seth, if you don't know him, is the managing partner of Price Benowitz, a DC, Maryland, Virginia, that's where I get the Delmarva thing from, and South Carolina law firm. He's also the president of BluShark Digital who handles SEO for hundreds of law firms around the country. So, Seth, as always, how's your week going?

Seth Price

It's going pretty well; it's going pretty well. You know, BluShark just moved into its new clubhouse, which is sort of a good pick-me-up, you know, we're sitting in this Netherworld. I'm sitting here and negotiating down space at the law firm, and as we've talked about, in prior shows, I threw the keys back in BluShark and said: Okay, we don't need all this space; because nobody was showing up. And we now took a sort of half-space, but it's like a studio. It has enough space for about half two-thirds of the employees to show up on a given day. So, teams are coming to conference room space outdoor meeting space. It's pretty cool. I can't wait for you to see it.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, I can't wait to come down there to DC, and get to check it out. Is it in DC proper? Is it outside of DC?

Seth Price

It's in DC proper. It's this cool area, Union Market, where they've literally taken an industrial area and turned it into this sort of destination. There are two massive high-end food courts, almost like you might see at the Brooklyn Heights waterfront, as well as like a bunch of developments with like one-star Michelin restaurants, and it took what was essentially the hood. And, you know, to be gentrified, is doing an understatement. It has taken nothing. It's not like something that ¨hey, there's residential, we upgraded it¨, this was like, we are going to, we are basically almost going to build a stadium. They have taken over a neighborhood, and it is, you know, beyond gentrification.

Jay Ruane

Well, that's cool. Speaking of stadiums, I'm really excited. I got my call yesterday, and in nine days, nine days from today, our friend Jim Hawkins and myself will be sitting in a suite at MetLife Stadium or Jet Life Stadium, as we Jet fans likes to call it, hot off the heels of our great successful MIKE WHITE first game start, and we're gonna get to watch a Jets game together. I, you know, it's one of these things where, you know, we're constantly networking, I made a connection with a friend who knew somebody who's getting us into a suite, and so we're going to be suite side be able to watch the game. I'm really excited. Jim is going to be in town. I'm spending like the whole weekend with him. Friday night, we're going to a concert. Saturday night, he's with his son. Sunday, he's going to a football game with me, because I'm going to have a full weekend of Jim Hawkins coming up next weekend. So, I'm looking forward to that.

Seth Price

I would say middle-aged guys go into a Jets game to quote The Breakfast Club. Sad and demented? Yes.

Jay Ruane

Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. So, I want to talk to you a little bit about something we've alluded to on the past couple of shows about we've been suffering at my firm, a little bit of dip in our sales, and, you know, me being a systems guy, I have started, I took a step back, you know, and really had to do a deep dive, I found, after a lot of looking and searching, I was having a conflict with some Pay Per Click ads that were not running because they were essentially canceling each other out with another ad group that for some reason got turned on, I thought it was off, and this summer it got turned on, and so we were not getting the click-throughs that we wanted, but that led me to want to talk a little bit this week about the sort of knowing your market, knowing when your leads are down, how to respond to those things. Because, you know, like many of us, you know, we get into a rhythm and then when something upsets that rhythm, and all of a sudden, you know, your sales, your weekly sales of whatever it is $50, $75, $500,000 or $10,000 goes away. You start to freak out a little bit and when it happens over four weeks or six weeks, you start to really freak out like I was doing, and, you know, and we had built in for years, a cushion to avoid freaking out so much, but COVID kind of wiped out that cushion. We're still building that backup. So, I want to talk to you a little bit about the ebbs and flows of a b2c law practice because I think it's something that a lot of people experience, but not a lot of people talk about, you talk about it Oh, and I'm flushing. The phone's ringing off the hook, but you don't really talk about it when you're wondering why the phones aren't ringing at all. So...

Seth Price

Couldn't agree more.

Jay Ruane

Let's talk about great experiences with that, because you've got a lot of b2c.

Seth Price

Absolutely, and we get it. So, I know, I think that I've looked at this issue, which is an amazing topic to talk about, because it includes so many elements as we talk about it. We're going to be digging deep down, almost to the James Michener and the source, different layers of this archeological dig to figure out, because okay, your numbers are down, and to me, like the first thing I always do as a digital marketer, as an SEO, first, is had any major ranking slipped. So, for me, for DC, for PI, criminal trusts and estates, you know, family, we have history, we have, you know, for legacy time, for multiple years, if not decades, held a very, very strong position in the SERPs. And so the first thing I do is I just do an immediate ¨Hey, something fallen off the cliff from an organic point of view, whether it be local, or whether it be the three pack¨ first thing, right? That's, that's like my immediate go-to, you know, you have inconsistent search results, but still a pretty dominant long-term player, but if something wasn't there, I tell a story that somebody messed with our crime subject matter area on a, on the GMB taking personal injury away, and all of a sudden, my personal injury listing disappeared. So, is there something specific or is there like, you know, Google has suspended a listing in the GMB. Is there something and I'm going to assume for a second, that that's not the case here for the sake of our conversation, because that's the first thing I go to, and for the most part, that is not the major place, but it's like one of those areas that I think everybody needs to look at. If you know, for me that's there for you, and maybe PPC, if you're PPC is not running Cha There you go, like if you're making your money from PPC, and all of a sudden, you're not spending money, there's no spend, that would be a pretty good indication that there's that again, but their spend, is it being spent on the right ads or your negative keywords, on all that type of stuff. Not that. So, I would say that when those things are not the issue, let's again assume for the sake of the argument that you alluded to, that there may have been some issues there, but to me, I am even though we're digital marketing focused, you may be social and paid focus. The place where most people see an issue when there's a hole very often is the intake, and we've had Gary Falco, it's on the show, we've talked a lot about intake, but we probably don't spend enough time talking about it. In the sense that, that is there, if there's a hole in the bucket, a hole that is likely, in my experience to be one of those places that none of us want to acknowledge, but for those people listening, if you're not listening to recorded calls, you're leaving an opportunity for something like this to happen slowly over time. I assume at this point; you have systems in place to listen to recorded calls.

Jay Ruane

I don't because it's illegal in Connecticut, to have, you need to have two-party consent.

Seth Price

Why? Why not? Why not? Why not put the Whisper on the call? You can't put a whisper?

Jay Ruane

We cannot.

Seth Price

Can you have the answer? Could you have an answer in a place other than Connecticut?

Jay Ruane

That's a good question. I don't know how that would be like. Let's find out. I think many people are entering and doing intakes overseas. I don't know if...

Seth Price

The whistleblower. Whisper in that, do it. I don't want to see you in jail. I don't want you to lose anything, but, you know, I feel like it is something like the excuse that it's ethically not allowed. Obviously, you're not expecting to lose your license. You've got to figure that out, in my opinion, because every time I thought that I was good, and I did I think I had a really good team, when I was a small firm with three-four intake people, but the moment you scale, the moment you don't know each of these people, but even when you do people have a bad day, they're doing it not the way you want it. The first thing, Is that likely to be for a complete plummet? No, but you have overseas people, and we both know that there have been issues in general. It's got to be recorded.

Jay Ruane

So, it's not recorded, but it's listened to live, like I said I've had an auditor. So, what they'll do is they'll actually set up a Google meet, have that open, have the other person on speakerphone, talking to their, talking to their lead. So, they're listening to them live.

Seth Price

They know that those specific calls are being listened to versus the average call.

Jay Ruane

So, yes, they do. They do because...

Seth Price

Again, I'm not. I'm just saying in general, I, I feel like, again, we're playing the detective here, there's no magic answer, that to me, I think that if you can get an ethics opinion that stuff's being answered offshore, that those calls are recorded. Ideally, to me, that's even more of a risk. Like, it's bad enough. Here. Again, we've had better success, and we've talked about this, and I'll talk about it again, we've really moved a large portion of our intake overseas, and I was scared to death the quality would drop in the criminal space, I've seen it go up in that people want the job, they follow the program, and they're not going rogue. Yes, people want their, need their JOB, and they're following it, rather than I'll do what I want. If they don't like me, I'll just find something else quickly.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, you know, that's one of the things I've been very, very blessed. The overseas talent that I've been able to get in is truly committed, and they're excellent, excellent at what they do, and they're always looking to improve. So, I've been very, very happy with the talent that i have been able to find.

Seth Price

Even you, you've had a couple of false starts with it. As happy as you are, let's make sure that it's for good reason. We got to figure that out for you. I don't know how it'll be done, but I think your homework is to get Ethics Counsel and figure out, how do I do this? Can I do a whisper? Can I do it for overseas people? What can I do? So, that I have, and again, you're listening to some of them live I get it, it's not like, you're not being reckless, but I feel like every time somebody who hasn't recorded starts listening, it is humbling, and often, you know, earth-shattering, so I leave it at that. So, the next piece I was going to say, which is something that I think is very useful for our audience, because we all live in our little vacuum world, like, we have Max Law, and we can talk to people, we have the Gil, but you know, there is an isolation, and I, some for me, my model, I have different lawyers, and I have lawyers that do seven figures a year on their own grossing, and they'll come to me, and every August, they come to me panicked. There's no business, I'm like, what month is it? Where are we? So, what I would say is that, and that's the more sophisticated answer, because you have years of experience before you flip out completely. It's checking with your colleagues at the courthouse, checking the docket to see what's there. What are the other private attorneys doing? Now, everybody is saying, Yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine; and there have been times in my life where people sort of bullshit you, you don't get the right answer, right? but if you have your close buddies who can give you a real indication of the upper they down, you just need to crowdsource that because often what I find that we saw this in DC was, and this has been a slow drip in DC, we went from four attorneys to like one that's working 80 percent full, you know, from my point of view, not their point of view, that keeping an ear to the ground as to where things are, is a certain market dried up, Has this town lost all money when there's really no private clients? Have the police stopped making arrests? because they're pissed about some sort of protest and figuring out not just your marketing. So, assuming marketing is working, and your intake is working. Is there a market force that is affecting, you know, what's going on? If somebody tells me their divorce practice, and divorces are down right now I'm like, hey, you better look at those first two things, because either your marketing or your intake. But if you're a criminal defense right now, given everything that's happened between COVID restrictions in certain markets, between, you know, black lives matter, protests, in DC insurrections, all these things, progressive prosecutors have had a marked effect on the criminal defense practice, and that you need to take that into account before you flip out and start firing your in house marketing person.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. You know, it's interesting, you know, every practice I think, has a little bit of ebb and flow to it. I mean, criminal, you know, criminal has their times a year where they're busier. Divorce, I know from my story is three divorces big at the beginning of the year, people you know, they finally get through the holidays and they say, I'm not going to do this again next year, but there's also a divorce, a bit of a slowdown, in August as people are getting back to school and they don't want to add that to their to-do list at that point. I don't really know about trusts and estates, if there is tax time, right? You know, there's...

Seth Price

No, no, you know, it's funny. No, I thought that for the probate world, they get very busy, people hold on through the holidays and pass away, you know, end of the year, beginning of January, and that January becomes one of their busiest months has been my experience.

Jay Ruane

See, those are the types of things that, you know, you really sort of have a, you know, the mile high view of what's going on in your industry and you don't necessarily get that when you're just handling your files a year, whether it's 100 or 1000, you know, you really do need to crowdsource and get an idea of what's going on, let me give you a perfect example: So, in the state of Connecticut, we average around 14 to 16,000 DUI cases a year. Right now, we called the DMV earlier today, and there's been 4,000 in the state. So, you're down 66% or more in our state. Numbers are like, wow, I'm surviving.

Seth Price

Wow, oh, time out. Not only is that there, but like, how many DUIs come from a traffic stop? How many criminal cases come from? So, not only is that there, but I think you answer your own question, that everything is stemming from that because of enforcement is down, everything, you know, it, the number of your cases that stem from a traffic stop is probably not insignificant, and if those are down by two thirds, you know, not that there are other ways, you know, people who come through the system, but that's a significant feeder. That means a me, one of your tribe, arguably the largest feeder of criminal cases, is down by two thirds.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, it has been, and of course, you know, I'm happy to be surviving it, we've seen some increases in other areas, but it'll be interesting to see over the next, you know, six months, that's 18 months, where we're able to sort of gain back market share, and also really sort of be able to figure out where our firm is going, because I think we're sort of at an inflection point, you know, coming out of COVID, I'd love to go back to the way it was, you know, in fall of 2019, but I don't think my practice is going back there. So, now I...

Seth Price

Practice, I think it's the market. So, yes, you're correct as your practice, but it is not like, hey, you know, I don't have the staff or I don't have the culture or any of that stuff. It's the widgets, the widgets are not there.

Jay Ruane

So, I went through and quickly made a list of things that people can look at, if, you know, assuming their intake is all set, the things that they can sort of look at. I want to riff on them quickly, get your quick thoughts on those topics as to where people should be looking, and then what I'd like to do is take a break here from our sponsors, and then I want to talk to you about a topic that's been bandying about in some of the online forums in the second half of the show, but if so, the intake people I created, I created a system for it, and this is, the basis is, if your leads are off, here's what I want you to check. First and foremost, we got to check pay per click, because pay per click is a big driver of intake into our type of practice. Simple things like, is your credit card expired? Or has it been declined? Do your ads go offline because of a quality score? Did you pause a campaign by mistake? And if you're doing like me, if you're running a lot of video campaigns on YouTube, one of the things you have to realize, and my marketing, one of my junior marketing people didn't realize this, is that when you set them up, you actually set a budget and an end date. It's not like regular pay-per-click that sort of set it and let it run. So, you got to watch out for those things. Local Service ads, one of the things that I found that were an issue, was that we would upload our malpractice insurance because you got to give them your malpractice insurance to stay verified, but it kind of sort of stuck in this, this verification loop and we found that you actually had to call in and get them to manually validate your malpractice info because it wasn't being done automatically, but then other things like checking your credit card from there. Is your budget appropriate given the mass adoption of LSA? I mean, a lot of us in this community set up our LSA early on and they said oh, I'm gonna do, you know, I'll set my budget, but now that more people I mean, you do, you're looking to LSA for PI, and there's like 100 lawyers, it's like, I don't know how anybody's getting any PI work out of LSA. I mean, maybe people are...

Seth Price

Sort of what the now that you're seeing is the numbers are moving north. Yeah, it's what I assume whats happened, and then when you see a $2,000 call, that's our future. Like they, you know, they'll keep pushing until somebody till some schmuck says I'm still good with it.

Jay Ruane

Can you imagine paying $2,000? I mean, I guess if it's, but what if it's some, you know, minor impact soft tissue?

Seth Price

Well, it's a numbers game. So, let's, let's take that, and we'll take numbers like 1,000. Well, if you're signing up, if your, like, jurisdictions, that problem, my jurisdiction, we don't get the ability to sign everything up because of contribute other issues, but if you're in a jurisdiction where you can sign up two out of three and, you know, it cost you $1500 the case, that's what people are paying off TV. So, yes, you may get one. That's a dud, but it's the cost of doing business.

Jay Ruane

All right. Google My Business. Have you seen situations where profiles wind up getting suspended out of nowhere? I mean, we talked about this last year on the show, my train ticket, I mean, it went, it went, was cruising to hundreds plus reviews, and then one day, they just said, Nope, you're no longer verified, and it took me like eight weeks, and our traffic dropped, you know, ridiculously, dramatically. I mean, I was crying at that.

Seth Price

No, no, we've seen it. You know, we haven't seen a lot of these random acts of suspensions of late, we saw last year a huge amount, at least was your issues, a lot of other people's issues, was the virtual office, where they might have had a real office within a Regis, they might have sort of wink wink, nod nod, but they, you know, we're here, but nobody will ever know. Well, Google did. So, you're good until you're not good, but checking that out, that's very, there two types of suspensions topic for another day, there's sort of like the suspensions where you're gone, and a soft suspension was chosen suspension, but you're still showing, and that's just the worst purgatory is you, again, not the worst, the worst is you're gone, gone, but it is, you know, one of these things, where do you have to deal with it while still there, but it's definitely something if you don't take care of, you'll end up back in Jay's shoes.

Jay Ruane

You don't want to be there. Trust me, folks, trust me, and then the other last things, if your leads are off, you should really, probably do a visual inspection of your website, make sure it's up and running, make sure your phone numbers are displaying appropriately, your tracking numbers are...

Seth Price

Making sure that you test the numbers because you're using tracking numbers, make sure that somebody didn't not pay a bill or you stopped using a service, make sure the numbers get to your intake from the website. And make sure your forms, we have a protocol in place to test the forms every month, maybe even more. So, there have been times where shit that form is down, and you'll lost some leads, and there's not no worse feeling.

Jay Ruane

Oh, you know, that's the last thing I was gonna say is check your forms, because all of a sudden...

Seth Price

I would argue that those last few should be done no matter what, the Jay Ruane system should have that in there, where, especially if you're leveraging overseas labor, that they're checking your forms, and they're checking your phone numbers on a periodic basis, and you're not leaving that to chance.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, so, what we did, what we have implemented now is we actually have one of our marketing VAs. Their job is to do a visual inspection of every website, run speed tests, run all those things every month so that we know what's going on and that type of things, because I think it's important, you know, we spend a lot of time on our intake, we spent a lot of time on our marketing, and if you've got the marketing work, and you've got the intake working, the leads should be there; and if they're not, you're gonna, you know, you're not going to be able to afford to keep going.

Seth Price

The problem is there's good intentions like this, the sign of a true system that works is if that person leaves, does it continue to happen? Or do you look back two years later, we were doing it, but Francis left, and now we don't have any information for the last year and a half.

Jay Ruane

That's, that's a very good point. Okay, folks, what we're gonna do is we're going to take a quick short break, you'll hear from our sponsors. When we get back, we're going to talk about a topic that came up last night in the forums, and something that I've been thinking about lately, and it's called the entrepreneur positivity cycle. So, come back, and we'll talk about that, we'll see in a few.

Jay Ruane

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Speaker 3

In this world, today, if you want to grow your business, you want to grow your firm, you want to take on more cases and make a bigger impact, you have to have a digital blueprint. Statistically, throughout the time that we've been working with BluShark Digital, our law firm, the Atlanta Divorce Law Group grew over 1400%. They truly understand where we're headed, and how we want to get there. I have a team in BluShark Digital that I feel like has my back.

Jay Ruane

And we're back, Seth, and this is a topic that, you know, it's interesting to me, the other night, Chad Burton posted something in the big maximum lawyer group about toxic positivity, and this is something that I've been thinking about, I've been talking about with one of my friends, especially given the fact that they've now legalized gambling and open up the apps here in Connecticut, and I was joking with a friend of mine that for the most part, gamblers are the eternal optimists in that they always bet the over, they think, you know, of course, their bets are going to come in, but then I was thinking about us as entrepreneurs, and I think one of the reasons why we're outliers as lawyer entrepreneurs, is that we tend to be optimists, we, you know, we see something new, and we say, we're going to implement this, and this is going to make all the difference, and we're going to, you know, this, this new way of, of tracking our leads is going to work, or this new marketing idea that I'm going to put into place is going to, it's going to make the things happen for me, and part and parcel of being an entrepreneur is this, you know, short memory for the stuff that fails, and unbridled positivity, but does, does being this positive person, when it comes to your business? Does that hurt your business? In that, sometimes you might bite off more than you can chew, might be chasing down rabbit holes, might actually waste money when your core things you could work on to do better. You know, I know a lot of people who, you know, don't ever listen to their intake calls, like we talked about in the first segment, and all they're doing is adding more and more leads to a faulty intake system. So, let's talk a little bit about positivity and whether or not it can hurt you in this process.

Seth Price

Well, let's start with the positive side of positivity, right? Which is, because if you don't, I mean, part of it, like I remember I think it was my rehearsal dinner, a good friend of mine, is it like, you know, if they even at that point, my sojourn, my career, I had, you know, a bunch of real estate issues and a bunch of people that screwed us over really badly, defrauded us, all sorts of awful stuff and they were like, they forget how they were talked about in the speech, but, like, every day, you have to wake up at despite all that absurdity, all the people that have done nasty things to you. We both had them both on the legal side on the marketing side, in the sort of, you know, a greater social sphere that we travel and weird bad things happen and you just got to sort of brush it off, or somebody like went on a diatribe at Blushark, that they apologized a few hours later saying they were in a bad place, but like, how do you? How do you just brush things off? Shaken off as my seven-year-old favorite artists would say, How do you get through this? And I think that, like, so you're getting to the one point, where's that? Can there be too much positivity? I'm saying that if you don't have a certain amount of it, you can't get anywhere because people will steal from you. You'll have employees, I have an employee right now who never read his manual that we told him to read it, told him where to read it and he still didn't do it, and now I'm dealing with whether, you know, how are we going to change salary deal, or my point is, there are people that do awful things to us on a daily basis as entrepreneurs when you're employee, you come to work, your boss may do bad stuff. It's a whole different matrix of bad stuff, but from a point, the point of view of an entrepreneur, we have all these things, all these people that are sort of fighting our ability to build something, and if you don't have that resiliency and that ability to shake things off, that ability to forget, you know, a long memory, I joke, my mother in law remembers everything. She has feuds with people because of it. If you're able to sort of let stuff go, the better you can let stuff go. We've talked about this in a bunch of different circumstances, and the better off that you will be. I'm not saying you want to, like, stay best friends with somebody who hurt you. I'm saying that if you can't find a way to personally move beyond it and continue moving the ball forward for your whole team, rather than getting sucked back by it. That's a real liability. And the only way to build and expand is to sort of not acknowledge but to be able to sort of deal with the fact that there will be these things, and if there's not a certain level of positivity, I just don't think you can make it happen.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, I mean, in reality, there are some days where if I didn't have this sense of positivity, I'd never get out of bed. Just because, you know, the amount of weight that you're carrying. I mean, I, you know, it's funny. I was talking to another lawyer, and he's, you know, he said to me, I don't know how you deal with the stress of making your payroll every week, and I was like, Yeah, you know, when I look at it in the abstract, it's a, it's a pretty big nut that I got. It's more than I made my entire first year as a lawyer, I'm having to pay out weekly in payroll. So, I'm thinking to myself, wow, I'm handling that stress pretty well. You know, but I think it's important to not confuse an entrepreneur's positivity with blindness and avoiding the actual reality of your situation. So, I think...

Seth Price

That, exactly, are you going to things that resonated, I just passionate about the guy that I knew from the late 90s was in the .com bubble in New York, one thing he talked about, which I think that both of us are guilty of, and many entrepreneurs are when you get a new employee, you talk about them as if you're this is your, you know, you're a suitor, and this will be your soulmate, this person has gone to these schools, or they've done these things, they can solve this problem, or they cost so little nearly, and we fall in love with this person on the way in before their human foibles come into play. That's on one side, the flip side is you do see a lot of entrepreneurs fall down with the ship during the 90s. You know, there was, the stocks were on the rise, the bubble burst in April 2000, and a lot of these things became worthless, and I, people that I knew were sitting in office with like empty chairs, everybody else is gone. They were like, you know, hundreds of millions on paper one day and zero the next, and they wrote it all the way down, they never cashed out a single dollar to sort of like they never say took out enough to be able to buy a house. They were like I'm all in, and I think the most successful people are all in, but it cuts both ways you have you put these blinders on, which is what allows you to move forward. But I think part of the reason we're both successful, but not like, you know, we there are you look around there are people who have gone faster and higher has been that but some of those people, and they're there in the extended legal camera scene where they do put the blinders on, and they keep going, whether it's ethics issues, or whether it's business model issues, you can become blind to it, because you are so focused on moving the ball forward.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, it's definitely something that I think people need to do is, is know yourself. I mean, that's, that's really if you're gonna go on this journey of being an entrepreneur, you're gonna go on this journey of, of running the practice and all the responsibilities that go with it. I, you know, not that you necessarily need to go into therapy, like Seth, you and I do for each other every week, but you need to be honest with yourself about where your own issues lie with respect to positivity, or negativity. I mean, I know people that have partners who are the opposite, they say no to everything, because that's just who they are and it causes such great conflict in the firm, and then the firm isn't able to move forward, the firm isn't able to really sort of accomplished the things they want to do, because they've picked a partner who doesn't necessarily want to be an entrepreneur wanted to have a law partner. And luckily for you, lucky for me, we both have partners who understand what we bring to the table and appreciate that, but I don't think everybody necessarily the first person they pick is going to wind up being that person. So, it's something that I think you have to think about, you definitely have to think about. So, I just wanted to talk a little bit about that today, because I think it matters to some people. But quick show today. I think it's, I think it's good though, the last couple of shows have been good. We haven't had many guests, we've been able to deep dive deeply into some of these topics that I think are important and I really welcome other people's reactions. So, wherever you're listening along, please make sure to comment and let us know what your thoughts are about this. How has positivity or your perspective impacted your life and your journey as an entrepreneur, because those are the types of things that we want to talk about. So, Seth, I think that's it for today. I mean, it's a quick show, but it's a good show.

Seth Price

it's a good show.

Jay Ruane

Excellent. So...

Seth Price

You gotta Jets victory a good show, but it's a killer week for you.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, exactly. I got another Jets game tonight. So, we'll see how it goes. After, you know, I'm going to sit down, my wife's going out again, to get the kids to bed. I'm going to start the game a little late and be along alone, either, you know, celebrating or crying into my, into my ice cream bowl to see because it's going to be one or the other. I'm going to be happier, I'm going to be miserable and as a Jets fan. I'm not. I'm used to being miserable, that's for sure. So, if you want to keep up with Seth, be sure to check out his SEO insider, it's available on YouTube. Just follow the Blushark page that'll get you to him and his SEO insider gives you great, great information all about digital marketing. Of course, if you want to follow me stay with me, join my Systemising your law firm for growth Facebook group, what I'm going to do is I'm going to take the system that I created for if your leads are down the checklist that we've had a walkthrough, I'm going to post that as a system upcoming in the next couple of days. So, that way you can get that if you want to be part of that group, as well. Of course, you can always catch us every week here on max growth live every Thursday in the group that you're watching it in or syndicated on the maximum lawyer a podcast or own standalone podcast wherever you get your free podcasts. Of course, we want to thank John Fisher for allowing us to broadcast into his group and maximum lawyer media for allowing us to be out there and with them all along. We love having this large group of people that are, we are able to engage with Seth, any parting words for today?

Seth Price

No, just have a great week and can't wait to be back next week. Talking more show.

Jay Ruane

Alright man. So, listen up, folks. Be sure to tune us out every Tuesday and every week. Don't do this out unison, and if you have any questions always you can reach either Seth or myself on any of the social platforms or by email, DM us if you want. We're always happy to talk about growing your firm, and for that, we'll be back next week. Bye for now.

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