Join law firm marketing pros Seth Price from BluShark Digital and Price Benowitz and Jay Ruane from Ruane Civil Defense Attorneys, as they discuss the most difficult part about opening up a law firm: naming your firm. They bring up the point of how naming your firm matters online and off. Also, stay tuned for news and talk about rebranding the show. Contact BluShark Digital to set up a consultation, and see how digital marketing can affect your firm.
Hello hello, welcome to another edition of Maximum Growth Live. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane, CEO from FirmFlex, as well as managing partner of Ruane attorneys, a civil rights and criminal defense firm. And that guy over there, he’s Seth Price. The man, the myth, the legend, the digital marketing maven, CEO of Price Benowitz, DC, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina powerhouse law firm, as well as one of the owners of BluShark Digital, the premier, should I say, SEO firm for law firms. Seth, you’ve been traveling a lot lately. I always start off asking how your week’s going. You’re always calling me I’m like, I’m at baseball. Where are you in the world? How are you doing this week, you’re at home?
Doing well, yeah, had a great time out at Max Law, a lot of old friends coming together. It was good to see everybody, that Falkowitz as always gave something that I came back, we’re talking intake, and you’re gonna be talking intake, I know, with your mastermind group, but they just did one of those sort of 20 minute, you know, drilling down, something I love about Max Law, the ADHD for me works well with the 20 minute sessions. I almost look at like a classic New York Comedy Club, where they literally get 20 minutes sets. So you know, most comedians shouldn’t be doing 45 minutes to an hour, they come in, they do their set, and they move on. And you don’t like somebody, you got the next one. And it worked particularly well. But great to see Russ and the Jersey boys and John…
Just heard Russ killed it.
Russ killed it, and good to see Jim and Tyson. And it was just, you know, John Fisher showed up with his summer law clerk, who they just came off of a trial win and the settlement so it was just a great time all around.
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. I’m glad to hear it. Where are you going next? There’s always, you know, you’ve got, I’ve never met anybody who travels more than Seth Price. You know, you are…
It’s funny, I try, and it goes in the curve, you know, I get a team and I’m like I don’t have to travel as much, they’re in, and then you sort of like expand and fall back into, just like it is with managing, right, Jay tells me he’s gonna be sitting on a beach and next thing I know he’s back in the saddle and then you get it right, you can get back to the beach. So we got Lanier is coming up. Obviously, arguably the greatest trial lawyer of our lifetime. You know, he does a several day, basically one man from stage, how to try cases from the top of the mountain. And then PILMMA Ken Hardison’s group has an awesome multi day event. I’ll be speaking out along with a lot of friends of the show on best practices for marketing and management, specifically for PI lawyers.
Where’s the PILMMA event… Oh, nice, nice. Oh, this was something he was gonna do like two years ago and then got cancelled because of COVID, right?
Well, yeah. And his thinking was that that would be his location. NTL was Miami and Chris was in Atlanta, and then he would be New Orleans. I think he wanted to go there. New Orleans, the last minute flood, I think, knocked out and they audibled of all places to DC, which was a nice surprise for me.
Yeah they come down and actually speak. So it worked, that worked out well for me. I got to take the train in. But I want to talk about something that’s somewhat interesting. You know, we’ve been Max Growth Live here with our show, since we started. Well, actually, that’s not true. We had another name. Do you remember what the other name was? Okay. So we said that I decided to put this show together during COVID. A lot of people were at home. And business wasn’t happening. So we people were looking for something to do. We were part of that crew. And we said, you know, what about a weekly show where we get together, we bring in some guests to talk about growing your firm. We talk about growing our firms. And at one time since you’re BluShark, we were going to call it “feeding time live.” And that was, I actually drew, I got graphics for it and everything. And that lasted all of one episode, I think. And then we decided because at the time we were sort of aligned with the Maximum Lawyer people, we were broadcasting into their group. And we decided to call ourselves Maximum Growth Live or Max Growth Live, which is what’s the name of the show, but we’ve sort of gotten away from number one, being aligned with that community and Maximum Lawyer. They don’t broadcast our show into that group anymore. But we’ve also sort of grown and pivoted what we do. And a lot of what we do now isn’t necessarily talking to other people. But it’s talking about the moves that we’ve made to grow our own firms, the systems that we’ve put in place, the digital marketing things that we’ve done, both through SEO and pay digital like you do, through some of the non paid stuff, or the lower dollar stuff, like I’m doing with YouTube ads and with social media and paid social. And so we’re actually talking right now about changing the name of our program. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about it, because naming is something that’s important to law firms too. And, you know, it’s very easy to be, you know, Jane Doe, John Smith, Attorney at Law, you hang your shingle, you go out, and there you are. But this, you know, now that New Jersey allows for trade names, New York is allowing for trade names, it’s starting to grow in bigger jurisdictions that haven’t allowed them before, I think we should talk about the value of trade name or incorporating your practice areas in your name. Because I think it matters to our audience, when they’re thinking about their own personal brand.
Oh, choo, choo. For more, I said, two huge things, the trade names allowed, or I would say three, but the two of them sort of overlap. The first is one that groups that sort of talk about building it as a business to sell off. And while statistically very few people end up selling their law firms, most run into the ground, or maybe let somebody or a partner buy in in some form or fashion, the number of people, and the last day of PILMMA this year was actually on buying and selling law firms, which is going to be fascinating. We had one guest on along the way, it was a broker of law firms… Yeah, but it’s definitely not, you know, something that, you know, I, as a larger law firm owner have always wanted to acquire. And I have found in my limited experience that when I went out, I even had a consultant look for me, that people selling variable had thoughts and values of what they thought their law firm was worth that was just disproportionate, it was easier to do. And the change management, the integration costs are so incredible, that unless it’s substantial at the right price, I think it’s a complicated dance. That said, trade name arguably makes it easier to sell, because somebody could continue running it seamlessly, A, right. And B, for SEO and for local search, trade names can be huge, because those names, if that’s your URL, that helps a lot for search, having the keywords that you want in there. And secondly, in the local three pack, it had been extremely valuable. One of the number one things that was allowing people to spam was that the keywords in names and local search, recent algorithm update reduced it slightly, I think the jury’s still out as to how much, but more and more the leading players in a space have added the keywords, gotten it rebranded, got DBAs, etc. so that they can get those in. So the idea that your name, law firm, if all you do is injury, not adding injury into the name, so that it’s name injury law, that difference can be huge. And that now that you can get rid of name and add jurisdiction, Injury Law, it’s a game changer in a lot of ways, digitally. But I also think the final piece, I started mentioning there were three, is it lets people know what you do, who aren’t like… hits them over the head. One of the things that Max Law, that struck me and it was just, it was a humbling moment, you and I have done hundreds of hours of both with guests and without guests talking back and forth. And if anything, we do a extraordinarily detailed intro every time about what we do, and what our practices do. I met multiple people at Max Law who knew who I was, who it was great to meet me, I didn’t know you do criminal law, it’s great that you and Jay do criminal, that Jay does criminal and you do PI. But my point is, we think a lot of ourselves and think that people know exactly who we are and what we do. And the fact is, even prior clients barely know what we do, oftentimes three years later, they’ve moved on with their lives. They’ve got on to whatever, so that the more, if that mean as the number three piece can hit people over the head with, Oh yes, they do injury, or yes, they do criminal defense, whatever it is, if you’re an immigration firm, especially because immigration has that extra piece where you don’t need to be barred locally in doing immigration law. That the fact, why would you not? And if you look, I remember looking when Jim was looking to get into Sandy, all the major players, right, immigration, so instead of Hacking Law Firm, getting immigration, it’s such a game changer for both the ability to sell, as well as SEO and local search, and then getting some of the overhead with what you did.
So let me ask you, when you guys changed that name for his digital footprint, did you see a lift in his placement in the SERPs by adding the…
This is an example where he was so well positioned that it didn’t make as much of a difference for his current piece, in the suburbs of St. Louis he was fine, just like a price battle, it was solid everywhere. But when you move into a new market where you’re not logged already, you know, you’re fighting an uphill battle, how long will it take for you to be in play, that’s where it makes a big difference. So there are times, look, your name is clearly associated with criminal and DUI in your region. But that said, when some schmuck comes along with almost nothing, and added those keywords in, they were giving you a run for your money, Google keeps going. And now you’re seeing that like review count, is meaning that you’re not getting people coming in, when I look at injury in my market. It’s not like a guy with five reviews. And, you know, “DC personal injury lawyers” gets bumped to the front. It’s Google’s getting better and better looking, who are the legit players. And when that happens, the keywords hopefully mean less. But, you know, it is definitely something that if you’re going into a hyper competitive market, like San Diego would have been for me, if I’m moving into a new market, and you don’t have that gravitas, it is signaling to Google what you do and slotting you. Just like to the consumer, when the consumer is going, yeah you know me, and I have all, you know, I haven’t followed best practices over the years by today’s standards, and have gone into all these different verticals, the idea is I want to criminal site coming up for somebody with criminal if possible, the SEO advantages, put everything under one site, and then the right page comes up. But the more you can show somebody that’s all you do. And if a top level domain URL has that term in it, that is a valuable piece, not only for Google, but for consumers to say, Hey, this is what that person does.
So let me, okay, so you brought up something there, I think it’s a little interesting. And I want to get a little deeper into it, you know, you are interacting with, and this is taking off your law firm hat and talk more about your SEO hat, your digital marketing hat, you interact with a lot of lawyers who are in the business of growing their firms. I mean, that’s why you would engage with a BluShark, right? And one of the recommendations, I’m sure there is, hey, here’s your one office, there’s opportunity, you know, maybe in the next county or three towns over, why don’t you establish a small beachhead there, start to build out an office. And we have done that. We didn’t do it originally for reviews, but we were doing it to try to, you know, I wanted an office out near the casinos in Connecticut, because there were a lot of cases there.
And just the opposite, and we’ve talked about it, we talked about it at Max Law, talk about with you, talk on the show, but the downside of it is, you have to start over with review. So…
That’s my question to you. So say I’m entering a market and there’s, you know, three competitors that are ranking in the three pack and they’ve got, you know, 50, 30, and 20 reviews, right? Now, I’m going to try to beat that. But do you think that there’s a number I should aspire to? Like, I’d like to, you know, in my first year, I’d like to get to 75 reviews. So I have one and a half times the highest, you know, reviewed person, or do you think two times, 2x is, I mean, you know…
Let’s back up, you’re looking, you know, because look, you have finite resources, reviews don’t grow on trees, people back to number of clients. So what I would say is, I’m always money balling it, and look, I’ve had Fisher. Fisher has some crazy number of reviews on a site. God bless him. Next closest person to me, why are you continuing to add to that one when nobody’s even close to you. Go open one in Westchester, go open an office, you know, you’re in Albany, get Westchester doings, if you’re going to be able to get the reviews and you have that niche, to me, once you’re safely away from your competitor, you want to be able to start diversifying, just from a review count point of view. Why would you want to crush something beyond a certain number. So if there’s nobody else getting reviews in your area, you got 100. Okay, next place, next place. And as far as this, I would argue, Jay, that as you start to think about different places in Connecticut, you have a number of different beachheads out there around the state to service people in different areas, that you have your mothership, and you want to make sure you’re safe there. But after that, you know, I wouldn’t say it’s like playing, you know, do you have to win each one? Probably not at first. But let’s say that example you gave, it was, what was it? 50, 30, 20. So if you can get yourself into the 20s, maybe on a good day after 30, if you can be in play, I’m happy. Because once you’re in play, then maybe you want to do another beachhead, right? So if you had hypothetically, using your example, rather than going to triple the other guy, if you had 32 there, and then found another place that a had 30, 20, and 15, you got 22 there, being in play in each of those areas, to me, then you’re getting the most value for each of those reviews, rather than just crushing it. And I also think, again, I don’t know what you think of this, when the number is too high, compared to everything else, it can look artificial and fake. Or just, you know, to like, Oh, my God, you want to be a… there are different, like signals that are set out. Again, good reviews, five star reviews, always good. But if you’re in a market, and let’s say, using these examples, it’s 10, 20, 30. And you have 100? Does it matter if you have 100 or 200?
Probably not, right?
Right. So if you could take that 100. And again, if that 30 guy starts inching up, fine, you can go back to it. But if you have 100, everybody else is under 40. Could you get another place with 100, rather than 200 in that one place? Would that make you more money?
Yeah, it’s really interesting. Here’s, so I have two questions that dovetail off. This is interesting because this is not where we, when we pre show this, this is not where we were going. But I think it’s a good conversation to have, because these are all the calculations you have to make as a business owner. So first question, have you ever seen a situation where a law firm split up and they weren’t able to split the reviews in any way? Or does one person get to keep all the reviews, and the other person has to start from scratch? Because I can see that being… I would almost rather keep the reviews and give up my phone number. But we know…
Historically, there’s been phone number, reviews, and website. And it used to be the website was more valuable and reviews can be more so. You have multiple offices now, so in theory, but a lot of people old school had one office, so that was a real issue. We have seen… things that I have seen. And again, so yes, generally one person gets website, one person gets reviews, that’s as best I can see. But I’ll tell you something that has sort of, that if you had to split the baby, the GMB has some value. Because it’s old and established. It’s not, there’s not as much research on this. We know that the crusty old URL has value, there’s some value to that, and something that we have seen, which is there is… one way to split the baby is that the GMB goes with somebody, but taking the reviews that reference the attorney or that firm and moving it to a new GMB which can be done with some, you know, with some persistence so that you leave the GMB with the old firm, and the new firm gets the reviews and a new GMB and then they have to build, but the value of that GMB historically and again, with all these updates, jury’s out as to what’s going to be but that was another potential maybe way to go about this.
Well, that seems like a real expensive proposition to have somebody trying to get those reviews moves over and you know…
Most people are not geeks like thinking this way. But like when you are splitting a baby and one person is going to get the reviews, at least takes the sting because the GMB itself has some value so that the reviews you add in will pop faster than if somebody took the GMB and the reviews or Google business page as they call it now. If they take it and moved it, then starting from scratch with no reviews, that’s brutal.
You know, it’s interesting, there’s a couple of lawyers who were in private practice solos, who recently became judges. And one of the first things I did when I saw the list come out, and you could do this with lawyers who are just retiring, is I would look at their GMB and see if they had a bunch of reviews. And if they did, I was thinking about trying to acquire their business as they were exiting the practice so I could move over 43 reviews… Well, yeah, exactly.
And again, a judge is probably the best way because there’s zero value and they just want to make sure people are taken care of.
Right, exactly. Okay. So that’s the first question. Second question I have is, let me give you a hypothetical situation. So I have, well it’s not really hypothetical because it’s still within present day situation. And I talked to the people at BluShark, but I want to get your advice on it. So I have a GMB for a office that we set up about a decade ago. It’s got like 30 reviews, we’ve done nothing to curate reviews, but it generated 30 organically over a decade of work. It’s a shared office space with an accountant. Our name is on the marquee. So it’s a legit GMB, and we have used it, that sort of thing. In that market, there are two dragons, I would say, both with over 200, that are battling it out it seems every week, one of them has got one or two more than the other one. And then the other, they put some more resources in it. Is it worth even trying to compete in that market, or should I move that GMB to a new office two towns away where there, you know, with my 30, I would be the number one ranked person.
Based on proximity update, the advice is probably changing in real time. That’s not a crazy idea. That said, the question is conversion. Are you showing, first of all, are you currently or will you show with what’s being done to the site in that market, are you going to see the two dragons in you? Or are you not going to show it all? And that’s…
When we do Local Falcon, you know, we’re ranked third or fourth. So sometimes we pop, but from a consumer perspective, if you’ve got two guys with 200, why are you calling the guy with 30?
First of all, what rankings are they? Are they five stars? Or are they less?
You know, their average is 4.8, 4.9.
So it’s not like you have a 5 and they have a 4.6.
Right, exactly.
Right because that’s always like the question. Part, it’s just like, you can drive yourself crazy overthinking it. I’d ask, what are the numbers coming from? Are you getting any calls from that GMB? Can you track that?
We’re getting nominal, because you know…
So I think basically what you’re saying is you’ve never tripled down? The question I have is the place you’re talking about moving, is there enough population to make you any money? These guys are battling it out because there’s population there.
There’s population there for sure. And where I’m looking to move it is another big city in the state of Connecticut where the outbreak person has 80.
So if you’re 30 there within the year, and you’ll be there…It sounds like you’ve answered your question. Yeah, I mean, and then the question is just making sure you can get it moved, have the new place sign it, you know, assuming it gets moved quickly, great. If not, you have signage you can do, check the boxes, get it moved. Like that is Moneyball, right? You’re going like, why should you kill yourself against these two guys, when you can move into a place where you’re number two to a guy to start. And then hopefully soon, you’d be the top guy in review count.
That would be my hope. And folks, for the people who are watching, this is what I did. To get the data for this, I had one of my assistants basically do a search for the top 100 cities in our state by population, and then go run a search and see who ranked on maps, one, two, and three. And I had them use a VPN into the local person in that area. And so we have a spreadsheet of how many reviews each person has. And, you know, it’s fascinating to me is that we found, you know, some areas on the coastline with significant incomes, I mean smaller populations, but, you know, a three, four town cluster, where people were ranking in the maps with no reviews, because there just wasn’t anybody paying attention to that. And, you know, this is, you know, affluent areas of the state of Connecticut where, you know, if I drop a pin and get some office space there, you know, I could wind up, and because those are the people that can afford our services. So I’m thinking that might be a play, that’s better than trying to slog it out in a southern city where there’s a lot of other people who are, you know, the big damage jammas got 200 plus, you know, but there’s others in the 80s 90s 120s, you know, I’m still, you know, down there 30. But I can move, you know, to the shoreline, and all of a sudden be the guy with 30 reviews. And the other two people have zero or seven. I’m thinking that that’s a smarter play for time, attention and effort.
I mean, like, you’re always trying to maximize it, you know, just making sure there’s enough population making money. Because, you know, there are two reasons that all those people continue to trade in one area, because they like to live there, or because the market is showing that’s where they make their money… And if there’s not as much money in the shoreline, that’s going to be problematic.
Right, right. I mean, that’s certainly something that, you know, just these are the calculations that you have to do, you know, as your firm grows, you know, do you just expand locally in your headquarters area? Or do you take the shot and try to set up something, you know, a couple towns away, or in the next county and try to build up a secondary brand that you can really do something with? One of the things that we did early on Seth, and I’d be interested, you know, it’s worked well for us, is we’ve actually set up my partner Teresa as essentially an online competitor, her own branding.
That’s been the playbook I’ve had for years, you know that, and that I’ve used my lawyers and in digital parlance, it’s a practitioner profile. So people are like, how do you do this? Well, every lawyer can have a practitioner profile that’s completely legal. And until Google sort of made it difficult to rank multiple people in the same building, there were years in criminal in DC that we own the three pack. You know those were, I mean, and even today, it’s occasionally depending on how things break, we sometimes have two in the three pack, on any given day on criminal, harder do that with PI. But the idea is competing, I love competing against yourself. But now with this review situation, and proximity update, now the question is, should you be, and you know, should I be taking… right now, great example, right now I have two… Benowitz and one of our junior partners, who are in the same building. And those reviews are, you know, we basically come up, they don’t compete against each other so much. As Dave shows up, and the second person shows up sometimes in the three pack. The question is, would we be better off moving this person to the other side of town to substantial number of reviews, and there’s nobody on that side of town with it. The downside, and this is where reality… so the thing about additional offices, right? Let’s assume you follow all all the rules, right? It’s not a Regis, it’s an office. Downside is people can show up there regardless. And so for me, this is the issue. You can put the pins on the map all over the place, but again, less and less people come into the office these days compared to pre COVID. And as digital signatures come into play, etc. But when I do a search for my house for Price Benowitz, I’m getting a satellite office much closer, which is not where I want to push people to be, but because of the proximity update, I have to have it.
So I’ve got offices and what I’ve done is I’ve put in those ring video doorbells because we have these offices, it says by appointment only, please call us, you know, the name, the brand.
Respectfully, I love that. That’s all awesome and great disclosure, but the GMB it’s sending, the Google Business places… but the fact is when they Google it, and they see it, and they hit directions, you don’t get an opportunity to do that.
No and people still show up. We tell people, don’t go to this office it’s by appointment only, and then they’ll ring that doorbell, they’re like I’m hearing the ring, why isn’t anybody here, we’re like because it’s by appointment only, we didn’t tell you to go there.
But this is the piece that is problematic, not problematic, but the piece that is the issue, is that people are doing the directions without seeing anything else. I’ve done it myself for stuff, right, all of a sudden there’s a, I’ll go to a school campus for a youth soccer game and they have a lower school and an upper school and next thing I know I’m at the lower school, you know, I just typed in the name didn’t, you know, that’s your situation. So it comes at a small costs in the sense that you can get the location, you can get the marketing pieces, but there is, as my kids would say, a cringe factor potentially, if somebody starts going to the other office, which is going to happen, and as long as you’re good with it, that one out of every 100 people are going to do this. And someday you’re going to lose a client or get somebody really pissed off. That’s the cost of having that.
Oh, no, we’ve had those people screaming at us through the ring doorbell, saying, you know, I Googled you, and this is where it sent me. And so what we have done is we actually have our videographer went out and filmed, and made a video directions on how to get to our office and… people don’t pay attention.
But that said, I think the one thing you can do, and again, this is where it comes to training of intake. Is you’re talking to people about in that initial call, this is for the multiple offices example, if you talk about it, but it reduces it, still not perfect, right. But it certainly helps.
I wonder, you know, it’s amazing to me, now, post COVID, it seems to me, at least, what my people are experiencing, is that people more than ever want to come in and like verify you are real.
I’ve seen the like, I live in the blue bubble, there was a kid on the soccer field yesterday still wearing a mask. I mean, we live in a different place. And we’re not seeing that, we are seeing… we are not seeing that at all. And meaning that, like I know what you’re talking about, there’s that need for social. But I’m seeing that people are used to Zoom, they’re happy with it.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I’m not saying that they’re not happy with it. But it’s amazing how many people are like, I’m just going to show up to make my payments. And, you know, oh, they’re gonna bring in… yesterday, I had somebody who, you know, we gave them wiring instructions. And instead, they said, No, we want to come in with 25 large.
So that’s different then, you can’t, I think you’re…
I drove into the office to pick it up. You know, and…
Then now you’re talking about just being a criminal defense lawyer in general, like they didn’t drive in because they wanted your social thing, they wanted to come because they had cash burning a hole in their pocket and they wanted to give it to you, you know, very different than what I thought you were gonna say was, people wanted the in person consultation, but 25 large, you know, it’s not like they were gonna go take that to a bank and wire it, if they have it, they’re gonna give it to you.
I’ll take that any day I can get it. Any other things you want to talk about, Seth?
This is great. Looking forward, you know, I feel like you and I are in the process of figuring out, I even, look, I will take from a visual representation, the fact that we’ve seen three brands up there that we need to sit down and figure out, we have a great following at Max Law, there are more people that were more hyped about listening to our podcast than ever. Let’s work on trying to amalgamate these brands, you know, we need our Meta, we need the the umbrella organization for our lives. So make that a goal for us personally.
Alright, well, we’ll work on it with more shows to come too. And obviously everybody here who’s listening, either they’re watching us live, or they’re listening on the podcast, there’ll be treated to what our eventual brand becomes. But I definitely think it’s something that we need to sort of refocus and prioritize exactly what we’re doing here. And it’s all about baring our souls and allowing you to see the insight of two moderately successful law firms that have done different things in different ways. And just to give you some inspiration, and look, Seth and I are the first ones to admit we have made probably more bad decisions than good ones. But the good ones have carried us through. And we want to make sure that you don’t make those mistakes if we can avoid it. That’s really what it comes down.
Absolutely. So two, couple things before we wrap up. Very cool Law Firm Insider coming out with Mike Morris, we’ll probably simulcast it through our feed in the coming weeks. And look forward to catching up with anybody over the coming weeks at Linear and/or PILMMA if anyone’s gonna be there.
And if anybody’s a criminal defense lawyer and planning to attend the DUI VLA fall session in Austin, beginning of September, I will be there, I’ll be talking about systems of course, if you want to follow with me, you can always check out my soon to be rebranded Systemizing Your Law Firm for Growth Facebook group, we’re at like 1500 people, Seth. All of May and this week was focusing on the hiring process. And now we’re entering the managing process. So systems posting every day through the Fourth of July, all about how to manage people, the forms that you need to have them sign, the notices you have to give them, how to discipline people. It’s all stuff that you can plug and play, put it right into your systems, makes it really easy for people who run their firms, but that’s going to do it for us. Of course if you want to follow with us, please be sure to catch us live every week. 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific here on Facebook and of course you can check us out and take us on the go by subscribing to the Maximum Growth Live podcast wherever podcasts are available, but for now he is Seth Price, I am Jay Ruane. We are Max Growth Live for a few weeks more than something else. And that’s it. Bye for now.
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