Join Seth and Jay as they talk about how to use windfall money to grow your firm. They discuss how they would allocate different fund amounts to have the largest return and be able to have long-term results. Jay suggests that investing in different types of marketing such as referral marketing or outside marketing can be very effective when making sure current and potential customers are happy. Additionally, ads that are on LinkedIn and Facebook can be very effective in trying to target specific demographics of people that are searching for your keywords. Testing various forms of marketing to determine what is most effective for your company is a way to allocate funds to determine the best steps moving forward. Jay emphasized the importance of video and when funds should be allocated towards that considering how people are becoming more and more invested in video content.
Hello, hello, and welcome to another edition of Maximum Growth Live. I’m of your hosts, Jay Ruane, CEO of FirmFlex, your social media marketing funnels for lawyers, as well as managing partner of Ruane Attorneys, a civil rights and criminal defense firm here in Connecticut. With me, as always, the Grand Poobah of all things digital marketing, my man, Seth Price, over there, down in the greater DC area. He is one of the founding partners of Price Benowitz, your DC, Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina lawyers, as well as one of the founders of BluShark Digital, SEO for lawyers, but it’s not just SEO, they build websites, if your social, they do, they do it all, the link building, I guess that falls under the rubric. Anyway, Seth, as usual, it’s another week here live on Maximum Growth Live. So, how’s your week going?
Going well, going well. We’re hoping that the truckers don’t disrupt everything. We got a bar mitzvah this weekend, and hopefully guests can get here.
Nice. I’m sure it’s all gonna work out. It’s all gonna work out. I wish I could be there with you. I’ve got my daughter at a dance comp, and it’s just, you know, these weekends get really sort of, when you got little kids…
Well that, well it’s a combination, that plus we’re seeing with all the canceled stuff that every weekend has like three events.
It’s unbelievable. It’s, you can’t, you can’t keep up with it. And my biggest problem is I have two very reliable babysitters, who both picked up and moved to Florida during COVID, and so, now that things are reopening, I’ve got no extra hands-on deck. So, that’s been a little problem for me, so, yeah.
I had a life moment, I’ll tell you about, when I was a baby lawyer at Cravath, working with these printers all night, and there was this badass woman, she was unbelievable. She was, you know, she was mean, she was tough, she was top of her game in the M&A world, and in like two in the morning, she got a text that, like, her nanny had quit. And you’ve seen somebody who is just tough as nails just collapse like that, like she could take on like Sony and she could…
She could take on Russia. She can take on Russia.
But she, but that anyway, so I feel your pain. So, anyway, how’s, what’s going on with you? What’s on your mind?
So, interesting came up this week, interesting question came up, and I thought it’d be a great topic for us to discuss on the show, because I think you and I wouldn’t necessarily have the same answer to the question. And the question was posed by a worker’s comp lawyer here in Connecticut, Jim Haskell, and Jim’s question was, you know, I’ve got sort of everything happening, and I have a little windfall money. Now, granted, he’s getting it from like a PI settlement, but there are people who, you know, who could look in their books, and it’s, you know, it’s the beginning of March. So, you know, you’ve got the rest of the year to go, so you don’t necessarily have to tie the way money for taxes right now, of course, you should always be doing that, as you scale, so, you’re not hit with a bill that’s going to knock your socks off, but his question was, you know, what can I do to make, you know, to make some moves, if I were sitting on an extra 5 grand or 10 grand, or 20 grand? So, let’s walk through it, let’s get your opinion. And we’ll go through 5, 10 and 20, and see what you would do with a five grand budget that you have, what would you do if somebody said, here’s five grand, you got to spend it on your firm, what are you going to do with that money?
Look, I come from a digital marketing perspective and while SEO is not something you want to do with a one time hit, right? That’s the long-term commitment you’re building into, whether it’s PPC or LSAs right now, to me, I’d funnel some money there. Now look, a word of caution outside of the PI space, the LSAs are much more erratic, so up some downs, and it’s not a panacea, but I guess my feeling is I would take some, I would attempt some marketing efforts, right? So doesn’t work without paying tax on it. And secondly, if it does work, it can lead to something that you can scale beyond excess money and so, to me, the idea that you have something where you’re like, hey, there’s money on the come, great, some people take the attitude, hey, I’m going to get a vacation week for my family, somewhere that I wouldn’t go ordinarily, friends of ours have done that, but to me, from a business point of view, that is one of the few things because you can’t really hire a new employee at 5,000 or 10,000, you can buy a quarter of time, you know, you might be able to get a virtual assistant to work with you on review generations, I mean towards marketing, but, to me, it’s testing something, could be reviews, could be PPC, it could be, hey, this is gonna get me into the organic game, whatever it is, but putting something that has a chance of making you more money.
Okay, so my response is I like that but I think when you’ve got a finite number of dollars like $5,000, one of the best things that you can do is actually invest in your offline marketing, your referral-based marketing, because it, not that it takes a ton to move the needle digitally, but you do have to put an investment over time, you know, you know, writing, getting somebody to write 5000 hours’ worth of content isn’t necessarily going to turn into business in the next two months, but here’s what I’m thinking you do with that five grand. If you took the time to set up lunches and dinners with people who have referred you in the past, and maybe make relationships with people who you’re looking to get referrals from in the near future, you could develop some deeper relationships with people, and I think with five grand, you could do some really nice dinners, some really nice lunches, maybe send out some referral gifts or, you know, take some people to some ballgames, once Major League Baseball signs and is able to, and we’re able to get in front of the field there, but I think, you know, that’s one of the big things, and I know you have a tendency to go to digital, but, you know…
No, no, no, I disagree with you for a different reason. I love it, I think people should be doing that anyway, and that’s not a money thing, that’s an effort thing. If you said to me, I’m gonna take the $5,000 and I’m gonna take my top 100 referral people, and I’m sending them a nice gift, fine, it’s something you wouldn’t do otherwise. If you say, I’m gonna buy season tickets because it’s gonna force me to take somebody, as you’ve done with your box, you know, I buy that, what I don’t buy is, I’m going to start motivating because you can’t pay for the motivation. The truth is, if you could do a dinner, or a lunch every week, money’s not what’s holding you up from that, it really isn’t. A third of the time people want to pick it up anyway, you pick it up, if, that isn’t the issue, so, to me, you want to use the money for something that you get, if it motivated you to do it, great, but the odds of that happening are so remote, I want something where you get that money and you’re seeing, you’re putting the money in play versus the sweat equity, which is like, you know, dude, go take the lunches and dinners regardless, the money is not what’s holding you back there.
Well, I don’t think the money is what’s holding you back, but I think in this situation what I would do is I would take four grand to spend on the dinners and I’d take 1000 and have a VA, setting them up, getting people there, board meeting and making to make it as painless as possible on me as the guy who has to show up and sit down.
And I guess likelihood if we took 20 lawyers and we put them in that scenario, when we said go find a VA, hire them, have them, it’s not, there’s no system for the VA, that’s going to fail. The money for the dinners isn’t the issue, because it’s incremental over the year. So, you know, it’s funny, I was talking to a guy today, it was a product, trying to sell a $7,000 widget to people in the marketing space, not legal. I said, why are you doing that? Why are you not charging $599 a month? The pay up front charges seven grand, but why are you, why is the word 7,000 coming out of your mouth? And to me, on this dinner stuff, you want to do that, go do that, but the whole point is, the odds of it breaking and never happening are too great in my estimation, and that you want something, when you buy season tickets, I have Caps season tickets. Do you know how painful it is? I just gave away tickets to somebody who’s a very good referral partner to the legal side. I gave it to this guy who works with our law firm and his wife specifically, I thought, you know, I got Canadian hockey tickets, turns out she was a Montreal fan, I gave her Toronto tickets, but point is we know the story, it’s fun, I can’t like, and the truth is if I have it and have to use it like a timeshare, it gets done, but if you’re, if it’s something that’s going to take labor and thought plus money, I’m concerned that it won’t happen, so that when you’re looking at what’s the best use, I think that more often than not, there’ll be a broken place and the money won’t go in play.
Yeah, I think, I mean, the reality is, is that with any of these ideas, it’s all about the execution and getting it done. Okay.
Lower execution risk.
Okay. All right. So next up, 10 grand. You got 10 grand, and you got to spend it on something that you’re not doing now, right? So, it’s not just supplement your PPC, supplement your LSA, something new that you want to do with 10 grand, what do you think you would do?
So, I’m gonna, you’re not gonna like it, depends, B2B, we’re gonna go join a country club, something more substantial, more substantial season tickets, more substantial, you know, I’ll go to your thing, some more substantial events that you’re putting on, some sort of something that you, that you’re doing. But B2C, now you’re starting to get that when you go over 10 grand, 10 grand or more, now you could do some serious damage with a quarter of paid search over three grand a month, to me, that’s enough money to start really moving the needle, and, you know, if you do that, now you can sort of have a real on ramp to something or you’re like, hey, I’ll make the greatest example. I’m stuck in some sort of a 2500 nebulous, you know, web marketing play, and I always use 2500 as that over under, when you’re under 2500 there’s only so much content and links that can be built. When you start pushing into that 3,000 to 4,000, non-PI, there’s more meaningful things. So, to me, if you add an extra 10,000, and you can push yourself with a legitimate agency, to the point where you’re now spending that next level, to me, that’s one that will pay dividends and is worth that type of investment.
Okay, so my $10,000 spend is going to be something that I don’t know if you like, but it’s in your bailiwick and that’s, I want you to do something with digital marketing. And what I specifically want you to start doing is with $10,000 you can get about a million impressions with YouTube 15 second un-skippable ads. And so, if anybody’s ever gone on YouTube, but I’m sure everybody who’s watching has, they will make you watch an ad before you get to the video that you want, and there’s different levels of these videos, there’s a 6 second bumper, there’s a 15 second video, there’s 30 seconds or more, and they’ll, you know, with the 30 second ones, like after six seconds, you can press skip and get to it, but they also have a product that’s a 15 second un-skippable ad, and you’ll notice that, two things, number 1: 15 second, un-skippable is mainly what Google uses when they’re advertising Google products on YouTube so, if Google’s using it, you know, it’s probably something that works, and Amazon uses it the most the 15 second un-skippable ad.
I have no doubt that that’s a very effective piece. The question is, and it comes back to I think the answer to the first one, which is test something, if that makes you happy and you want to do it, great. I would argue for most people that there are more immediate direct search elements before branding.
But I’m saying they’re already spending money on…
But the questions are, that’s the real question. And so, again, you’re saying if somebody’s sitting there, and they’re like, hey, I’m spending $7,000, I’m making this up, but I’m spending $6,000 on SEO, I have a $5,000 paid ads, then I’m doing all that great. It’s similar to my answer on the b2b side, if you already have season tickets, and you’re taking people out to dinner, you’re doing all these things, great move to digital, but until then, build out that portfolio. Whereas here, I feel like, yes, if you’re maxed out, if you’re doing everything you can through search, what like, what better place to get somebody than the moment they have a need, rather than hoping that brand builds, because as much as 10,000 is, when you speak, I speak to my mentors about TV, radio, and eventually, a version of that, you can spend six months on TV or radio before you get a single call.
Right. So, what I’m saying is $10,000 can get you a million impressions, well over a year, over a year. So, so, you could set this up and there are services out there to, you could build a 15 second ad like promo.com and that type of thing, and you can do some really nice-looking stuff, throw that out there, make it run for a year to eat up that 10 grand and you’ll build your brand. And remember as lawyers, we’re, you know, we’re in this business for 20, 30, 40 years.
I spent three grand a month on brand, right? I do it, I can’t tell you that, I can’t tell you what amazing value it is, firm does fine, is it because of that? I don’t see it.
Hey, look, Coca Cola still runs ads. Everybody knows what Coca Cola is…
But that’s different, they already know, they’re reinforcing something already there. I’m a schmuck lawyer, you know, Schmuck Law Firm and I’m sitting there… And it’s funny, look, I, you know, what I would say, the other piece that I personally am working on, I think you’ll agree with this, is making sure that your retargeting is maxed out.
Oh, absolutely.
You know, and that may be a lower dollar, again, easy to say we all have some form of retargeting, but to really max it out, to me, I’d rather see that than general brand video. It sounds great but I would love, you know, I love…
I was just assuming you’re already doing retargeting.
You know, what I’m saying is like, well, I’m looking right now to say, what more can I do? I mean, again, I think it’s a point of diminishing returns. There was a marketing guru, now outside the legal space, he’s like, here’s my, you know, webinar on retargeting, and I just clicked on their site just to check it out. It’s unbelievable. If you want to saturate retargeting, is almost too much, maybe too much for a lawyer, you don’t really want, you know, somebody calls you for a sex offense and all of a sudden, ads are popping everywhere. Not that you’re really… but the idea being, you can saturate. I’ll test it out. I’ll want you to check it out, we’re going to be maxing it out, you know, the two basic, Facebook and Google, obviously are there, but they’re all these third-party platforms that go beyond. Just doing…
I used to use a company called ReTargeter early on in the retargeting days. I would go to like $99 banners, I don’t even know if these companies are still out there, I should look them up after we get off this, but ReTargeter, I would do banner ads, and I would use that because Google really doesn’t want display ads to retarget for lawyers because Google hates lawyers, and so, they don’t want somebody getting up and getting on a computer and seeing divorce lawyer or DUI lawyer coming up on a webpage that has banner ads, and cause problems in people’s homes and that type of thing. So, Google doesn’t allow us to retarget. I mean, you could always set it up, but eventually it will get shut down, and it’s been, you know, it’s gotta been 9, 10 years since they sort of took that hard line. It was great when it first started, and I loved in the retargeting, one of the cool things you can do though, is retargeting on Facebook, and, and I’m a huge proponent of retargeting on Facebook. And one of the things I love to do is, the minute somebody hits our website, and depending on what silo of our website they go on, they’re gonna see reviews and a carousel of our practice areas, they’re also going to be served up a series, a season of our podcast that focuses on their thing. So, retargeting is really good. And here’s a pro tip for people in the b2b community, what you can do is actually target people on LinkedIn, but because LinkedIn is so expensive, you then retarget them on Facebook, so you really go cross platform, so the initial ad on LinkedIn gets them to click through to your website, and then, once they’re on your website, you cookie them, and then when they’re on Facebook, with that Facebook pixel, you can run in their feed, and so that you’ve seen ubiquity, you see him everywhere. And so, for b2c, it’s better because for b2b, it’s better because the retargeting cost on Facebook is so much less than the retargeting costs on LinkedIn. LinkedIn retargeting costs are ridiculous, I mean, there’s a value to them if you’re in the b2b space. Okay, last question I have for you, then is $20,000, what do you do if you’ve got $20,000 burning a hole in your pocket? What would you do?
Part of it is, I don’t love the concept of burning a hole in your pocket, right? I just, meaning, to me, this is sort of the small time thinking that you’re, basically, okay, now I’m another level. And as that happens, the question is, what are you budgeting for? Are, you know, is this a one-time payout? Okay, I’ll play you long, Jay. So, then you’re just, you know, then you have the option to spread your potential, tests out, you can spend five grand on the brand, you can put five grand into paid search, it allows you to AB test three or four different forms of marketing, trying to get there. It’s the idea that it’s, you know, again, I’m conservative, so part of it is stuff evens out, and part of it is I just, I like to be working purposefully, not pushing yourself to spend that extra money, that said, it’s awesome. Basically, whatever it takes to push you to the next level, the AB test just. I know, for myself, way back in the day, spent $1,000 on Facebook ads, it worked, went to two, went to four, went to eight, eight’s too much, wasn’t getting the return, went back to four. That’s how I, you know, did a lot of different spends. Avo, right? We spent a lot of money on that, built it up. One day, we’re like, okay, not seeing it, comes way, way down, and continuously testing everything you can.
Okay, for me, I’m gonna go offline and say, I think if you have $20,000 that you could actually invest in something, I think it’s time to bring somebody into your office to help you with your video game. We all know that video really helps, videos get, you know, people are devouring video. I think you can find somebody part time who’s going to be able to identify the things that you need to put on video, help you get the video appointment set up, get the editing done, all of those things, it may be a combination of two people or just one, but if you…
I’ll give you another perspective, you’re, with 20 grand, with the right person at the right level, you may be four to six months of video.
Yeah.
You know, just like, you know, testing. So, to me, I don’t think this is like, again, the issues are different skills, and so, it may be three months of shoot plus some offshore editing, whatever it takes, but yeah, I like that a lot, thinking what, it can be…
I think it’s, because most of the videos you’re gonna film in your first 90 days are going to be evergreen, dude, and so, that’s the thing, that’s freaking awesome. You’re not reactive to what’s going on, what you’re doing is you’re actually creating a base that you’re going to wind up, I mean, I, It’s interesting. I don’t know if everybody knows, but I had a problem back in January where Google shut down my YouTube channel, and I had to fight to get it restored and it took a little while, but the interesting thing is I went back into some of my videos and if you go back to when I started doing video, right when YouTube started, I had videos with 19, 40, 93,000 views that I haven’t looked at in 15 years.
Well two things, and this is the most painful part, which is you have the numbers on it, so you’re not getting rid of it, some of it’s the biggest crap, you did it years ago, it doesn’t look good, doesn’t sound great. You know, I don’t know, our earliest videos were literally like hostage videos, proof of life where you’re only at the news. There’s a little, a cement wall behind the person speaking, we’ve raised our game in the intervening time. You know, two things, and this is sort of like, let’s bring it back to reality. Yes, it’s great when it’s you, but when you’re busy, you go, hey, I’ll have my associate do something. One of the most painful things I’ve had over the years is when the associate leaves, what do you do with the videos? Some of them sort of stay up, if you go, it’s nebulous, it’s not ideal, I, generally, they come down. So, and the worst part is Murphy’s Law. I have found that the people that were most excited about doing the videos are not always the long haulers, we have plenty of people, I have 8, 9, 10, 10, 11 and 12 year people, lawyers in my firm, right? So, are those the people sitting doing kickass videos all the time? Absolutely not. Some of those people were 12 years old in their first videos it seems like, and so, it is a constantly evolving thing, so, yes, love it, but know that it should be done with, easier advice to give than to take, with a little bit of thought, you know, everybody would love to have the Grungo Colarulo, you know, sort of fun video series. I have struggled, cause I have a guy doing the evergreen content, it’s not enough to justify full time, in my opinion, I’ve really struggled, and recently had a breakthrough, pushing him to do some form of casual video. And it’s easy to say, yes, we’re going to do this, the creative part is a lot harder, and who’s going to own that, and so getting a cost effective videographer very often may or may not come with somebody who has that inspiration to help you do that, because a lot of us don’t have it. There are two different rules. I remember we were at a John Fisher mastermind, and we went, you were in town, it was in DC, and these people are, so this is when like, the iPhones were all the thing and people were doing videos, and people were sitting there shooting nonsensical videos on the street, and in one sense it was nonsensical, and it was like this is stupid, but on the other hand, it was something. And part of it is just reps, just like Kobe used to talk about, you know, practice, so it’s like, I love the idea of doing something, I have found it more challenging. So, I did this, I took Jays advice, I listened to you, I watch our show, I listen to you, I got the videographer, and now, I’m just, it is definitely a grind. It is not, just like season tickets, it’s one thing to have season tickets, it’s much, much harder to use them effectively.
Oh, absolutely. I mean, everything is work. You know, that’s one of the things a lot of people are like, you know, they say, okay, once I get to this level, the work stops, and I can, I can just enjoy this, but, you know, the work really never stops, honestly, you may just have people to delegate work to and be responsible, but that’s just, you’re going to open up more time in your calendar for more things. You know…
I could take that and pivot from that to our final topic, which is, look, you know, great intake team. Listen, I’m buddies with Gary Falkowitz would say implement the best practices, and then, we have a lead gen company that was working with us saying, you know, our ROI wasn’t great, and our, way too high a percentage were going to our answering service instead of being answered by my 15-person team, and I’m just saying like, it is, the sooner that we realize, you know, two steps forward, one step back, there are moments when you are thrilled, it’s working. Intake it’s one of those easy things too, because of people, and people are very difficult to manage. So, every time you think that it’s set, you know, set it and forget it, what was Jay’s five favorite things, the place pretty much runs itself, think about all the things that have happened at your firm since that statement, you know, that where if you were on a beach, it would not have been good. So, my point is, it is a constantly evolving piece and I would argue that one of the most, you know, delicate spaces to deal with is, is intake because it is not, just like a website, everyone’s going to look at it like who approved that page or what, how did this happen? And, you know, how did this code change and like the mystery bunny and you track it, you, look, but intake, I would argue is one of those things, so, you know, you’re talking about money before, it’s not sexy, but strengthening that checks and balances, extra training, extra ghost calls, whatever it is, those things are not the worst because as somebody who like prides himself on it, loves it, knows academically what to do, having that reflected in reality is much, much more difficult.
You bring up a good point. I want, maybe we got five more minutes where we can talk about this, because I think this is something that, you know, maybe the audience needs to hear. I’ve struggled with it. I don’t know what your perspective is on it, but, you know, if I want to hang a shingle tomorrow, brand new with everything that I, I’ve learned about the practice of law, and if I decided tomorrow, I want to do something that’s totally outside my bailiwick, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna hang a shingle on a trust and estates practice, I don’t know what I’m doing right when it comes to writing a will, wouldn’t know where to begin, but I could take, I could take a couple of weeks and get up to speed on it, I could build, have a website built out, start telling people I do trust and estates and I can start generating some clients, and, you know, maybe by the end of the year, I’d have 25, or 50 grand worth of business. Next year, I’m a year into it, yeah, I could probably double that, I could probably get to 100. Year after, maybe, maybe double that even more, get to 200, three, four years in I can get to about 300, but I got to start hiring, and that’s everything. And here’s my point, there comes a point where it no longer becomes easy to keep doubling your money, and your revenue goes up instead of going, you know, 100% of revenue a year, now you’re adding 15% or 5%, I mean, you know, there’s only so much bandwidth in your market necessarily.
You bring up a bigger question, which I love, and we talk about in different ways on the show, but I’ll take it from two perspectives, right? The first is, as you add scale, right? I’ve scaled more than most in our b2c space, there’s expense that comes that you don’t think about. I look at it like if you’ve ever had a rental property, you got one and you want to check on it, you go down the street, you check it out, no big deal. You get 10, all of a sudden, need somebody to do a showing. You can’t get to every showing when a place needs to be rented, you can’t get to every repair, you know, you start and then, you have people, well now at some point, you get 20 or 30 rental doors, and all of a sudden, you need two or three people, who’s gonna manage them? And what you forget is, it’s not just that you need three maintenances guys, hypothetically at some point, you needed somebody, a little plumbing, like, you now need a person to supervise them, who you want some stability because they now have institutional knowledge and know what’s going on despite Jay’s systems. The same thing happens in law firms, that as you scale there’s incremental costs like, one of those things that I’ve held off as long as possible, stuff like HR, the moving beyond like an office manager, but to somebody, you know, a real person who has thought and can substitute for your judgment. Judgment doesn’t come inexpensively. And so, each of those things exponentially adds cost and brings down margin. I’ll give you the flip side of this, I see this from the marketing side. So you’re talking about somebody’s just starting out. Let’s take somebody who’s been in business, they’re running, they’re doing criminal and they’re doing $400,000 a year, and that $400,000 a year is something that is basically with them and an assistant. It’s nice and profitable, they’re taking home, I’m making this up, let’s say 250. They come to me and they say, hey, I’m interested in digital marketing, working my ass off. I’m like, if you’re working your ass off, and you want to now add, let’s make this conservatively, $50,000 in SEO, and you don’t have an associate, you’re going to add an associate, and let’s say you get lucky and you pay the associate 60, but as we talked about on other shows, that number goes up quickly. And let’s say short term, you get a three to one return through paid search, or you do organic and before it pops, a three to one return, then all of a sudden, we do all this extra work, all this managing, all this risk for an extra $50,000. And that’s not nothing, but after tax you’re talking about what, $34,000, and, again, that’s real money but is the juice worth the squeeze? And I find that most people, when I’m talking from a marketing point of view, I counseled them not to do that because unless they have desire to go to a million dollars to get one or two associates along the way, fine, but the idea that you’re just going to incrementally grow that, very often as a break point, that unless you scale to two or three associates, it’s much harder to justify that additional expense.
I agree, and that’s one of the biggest challenges I have seen with, you know, the two-person firm or the solo firm, is that they say, okay, we’re gonna really go all in on this, but they, but it’s just not necessarily, you know, they have to think of the long haul and the end, and the cost that you have to sink into it to get over that hurdle to get over that hump, and I think it’s certainly something that people need to consider. Alright, so I think that’s going to do it for us, Seth, a really interesting show. I’m glad we got some of your feedback on some of those price point things early on, and obviously we like to talk about growing. Folks, if you ever want to follow us you could do so. Watch us live every Thursday, here online. Thursday 3pm Eastern, 12 pm Pacific on Maximum Growth Live, also available in my systems Facebook group. If you’d like to know about systems, please join us, It’s called Systemizing Your Law Firm for Growth, and it’s also, also syndicated on the Mastermind Experience, Sean Fisher’s group. So, if you’re part of that you’re probably watching the show live right now. Of course, if you want to take us on the go, you can find us wherever podcasts are available. Our podcast feed is available under the the name Maximum Growth Live. It’s got a gray cover for our 2022 season. It’s our third season doing the show. Seth, any final words?
No, looking forward to a great weekend and catch-up next week.
Awesome. Thanks, folks. We’ll see you next week. Bye for now
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