S4 E4: The Law Firm Blueprint Tackles HR Questions and Vacations and A/B Players

This week join Seth and Jay as they discuss: Taking 2 weeks off in a row to see what “breaks” How to deal with an underperforming team – can a new A player elevate the team? When should you add an HR employee? Can you outsource or use a vendor? Discuss a new Google My Business move and Planning office space for the future – suburbs for staff and city center for attorneys?

What's In This Episode?

  • Welcome to the Law Firm Blueprint and how it’s been.
  • How do you motivate your team to take time off?
  • Hiring someone for your office who helps motivate and figure out what is going on.
  • Do you think it’s wise to always have a job posting up on Indeed?
  • The importance of understanding the mindset of your employees and your clientele.

Transcript

Jay Ruane

Hello Hello and welcome to the Law Firm Blueprint. I'm one of your host Jay Ruane, CEO from Flexure Social Media Marketing Agency for Lawyers, as well as managing partner of related attorneys, a civil rights and criminal defense firm in Connecticut. With me as always back from his sojourn. My man Seth Price down there in the DC Maryland, Virginia area, the managing partner of Price that awaits Powerhouse Law Firm, as well as one of the grand Pooh Bahs over there. And blue shark digital SEO for law firm. Seth, it's been a while since we've been live. Together we did your you did a show that I did a show about an hour back here. Brothers in Arms. How have you been?

Seth Price

I have been great. Couple of weeks of R&R, you know, all the guru's talk about, can you walk away from your firm, and, you know, and have it have it work. And, you know, when the team is there, this was my most carefree vacation from the point of view of nothing exploded team did what they were supposed to do, no major issues. You know, I go back, I don't know what it was about eight years ago. And we've lost our way our head of finance, you know, the sort of junior controller position. And, you know, my blog partner, Dave is on the phone with me, I'm paying $3 A minute from some cruise ship eight years ago. And he's deciding whether or not to hire somebody who had like, an armed kidnap conviction for the for the position. Now, obviously, that would not have been a good move. But that's the level that we were at, we were like that desperate. Thankfully, and ironically, the person that we popped in hire during that vacation is still with us eight, nine years ago later, and it worked out for the good, but it just shows you, you know, when you go away Murphy's Law, this, this happened to be a good one, things were good. And to be fair, we put things in place, whether it be operations, HR, things like that, so that with the right team in place, there was a lot less need for myself.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, you know, I mean, one of the things that that we deal with often as owners is an inability to break away. And, you know, getting away for two weeks is so much better than getting away for one week, because you start to see the cracks, right, you start to see the things. And I know you have a lot of friends in finance in New York, I have a ton of friends in finance, there was always that rule in finance, where you needed to take two weeks off, back to back. Because while people can cover up stuff for a week, it's really, you know, if you're doing something wrong, after two weeks, that's going to show up, and it's going to get caught. And, you know, maybe it's something that people should be thinking now is giving away for a two week chunk of time, so that you can actually honestly start to see where the problems are. If it's an intake problem, if it's an operational problems, it's an admitted problem. So I really think two week vacation, I mean, my goal has always been trying to get away for a month, I also was planning on taking a break. And, you know, 12 hours before I was due to get on a flight to go to Charleston, my whole family tested positive for COVID. So my vacation week turned into a weakened quarantine at my house, which is, you know, threw me back to two years where you can't go anywhere. And, and but this time the whole world was carrying on without us. And so that was a bit of a challenge. I couldn't get into the office. So I worked remotely, but I figured I might as well work I was here. So you know...

Seth Price

But two things on that one. What I remember as a baby lawyer, was that people would say to me that the one week vacation is brutal, because you prepare to leave, you set everything up to be handled, then you're gone and you come back and it's hell. You know, with at least two weeks, all that effort to get yourself prepared to be out at least has more of a payoff.

Jay Ruane

The last couple of years, I always did two weeks at the beach with my family. And it was definitely huge that intervening weekend where you're not having to travel back, you actually start to decompress them. And that actually brings me to a point we didn't really talk about this at a pre show, but vacation time for lawyers. You know, one of the things that's happening right now is I'm starting to see some burnout from some lawyers. Because, you know, COVID hit everyone's sort of, you know, retrenched and we're, you know, I know I sell dirty COVID I was running 100 miles an hour I felt every day I was running this, this this, you know, this sprint to be like, I gotta keep my business. afloat, I gotta keep my business afloat. And now I think we're really at the, you know, people are burned out, right. So we've traditionally gotten with the whole lawyers can take unlimited vacation, you know, just work your schedule around it. But people aren't taking that vacation. They're finding simple excuses. I'm thinking about going back to A, you get four weeks of paid time off a year, 20 days or 25 days as an attorney, and you can't carry them over you got to take, because I'm starting to see people burnout. And there's always a reason to not take a break. What are your thoughts on that? Should you do unlimited? Should you give him set times? Should you just say, do whatever you want? Because you're, you know, you're making it as long as you handle the clients are fine. How do you guys do it?

Seth Price

You know, I don't love the term unlimited vacation, because it's kind of a fiction, right now, like things that are not genuine. Because if you did take unlimited, then you wouldn't have a job that wouldn't be a business, etc. That said, for our attorneys, and a lion's share of our attorneys have some sort of incentive model, right, whether it's percentage of sales, or whether it's a bonus based on production, whatever it is, people are incentivized enough. So they take vacation, but one of our highest earners, one of my partners, he traveled all over the world, he just gets his shit done. Now, these aren't pure vacation vacation days, you may be in Thailand, but he'll sign up a major case from there. So he's sort of balancing those two. So it to me, it's, I think, partially, and this is one of the things that we do have scheduled to talk about today, which is, when you have the right person, vacation doesn't become the issue because generally, they can get their stuff done, take vacation and the right person like you or I or somebody who you want to be there not going to be you but somebody who emulates the same sort of drive is going to be able to take that vacation, hopefully more than, you know, sort of the baseline amount of vacation, but knows that a phone call here or a particular meeting there can make it so that it really allows for that much more without missing a beat. That said, what do you do on the opposite side, you attributed a bunch of things in your in your statement there, which was burnout, COVID, depression, etc, things that I'm dealing with, and I feel like in, in certain division, I'm dealing with a group that's never fully recovered. I'm sort of in a bastion of mediocrity with a small group within us. And I'm struggling to know, what do you do? There's a certain amount of okay, we know everybody's struggled through COVID, there's certain mental health issues, etc. At the same time, I'm seeing numbers in a division month after month, thoroughly mediocre. What do you know, do you how do you motivate out of that? Do you have to add new blood into the group? You know, what are your thoughts?

Jay Ruane

Let me ask you, like, when the people in that group first came in, were they crushing it? And now they're just sort of, you know, mailing it in? Is that because whenever anybody new starts, there's the excitement of a new job, and the productivity you get out of somebody in their first six months, will never match what you get for that for them from six months afterwards, I think, because...

Seth Price

I don't know if I agree with that. You know, to me, when you have a players and they figure it out...

Jay Ruane

I'm talking about we're not talking about a players. I mean, a players are always going to be a players. There's a reason why there's MVPs What the You know, we had the all star game this week for baseball, there are always a players in any business. Right? And, and a lot of people in our audience are probably former A players for somebody else and then said, You know what, I'm going to do it myself. But for every you know, for every Otani there are a lot of grinders in the in the in the major leagues, right. There's a lot of grinders out there who have who don't hit 300, they hit 225 227. You know, they hit 11 home runs a season, you know, have a few errors, but they're not necessarily, you know, making an all star team, but you need somebody on that bench, that's a grinder who's going to play your games, you know, it, you know, in that respect. And so, can you expect to have a team of all a players, that's the, that's still not clear...

Seth Price

Clearly not their truisms. Right? Not everybody is going to be, you know, one's going to care about the billing and all that. But I'm very fortunate that I have 60% of my team that is playing at that, that a plus level, I just have a small subset, you know, sort of like the bottom 10% Like anything else, where I'm struggling because, you know, there's a certain amount of bend that we gave everybody with sort of COVID and sort of the, the ups and downs of COVID but I'm like, okay, you know, we have a sustaining business going forward. You know, how to motivate somebody out of those doldrums. Okay, taking your now Assuming that PR your statement that people you know, the first six months is great and false, how do you then at least pretend that you don't want it to continue to go down, which I feel is where I'm at, I started with people that were solid went to Okay. And right now I'm below the Mendoza line and a few people, and you know, the I would cherish the opportunity to lift these people up, you know, we did beginning of year sort of goals for them. We've tried to sort of push and pull and do things, but I'm getting frustrated. And this is with a good team in place. I have my numbers in place, I have administrative people in place. And I'm trying to find some way to motivate people who are slipping below the mediocre point, you know, point in the continuum.

Jay Ruane

Okay, so then here's, here's the next question. I, I'm in baseball mindset, right. And I know you're a fan. So you've got essentially a joey Gallo situation, somebody who performed well with and, you know, in a prior life, you know, when he was with Texas, he was doing much better. Now he's here at Price Benowitz, which is the Yankees of Washington, DC, Maryland, Virginia. Right. And he's underperforming? Is it a mental issue, like a mental health issue? Like I think about billions, right? They have somebody on staff who is a motivational coach to sort of, you know, work out those kinks, and get them functioning at the highest level possible? Is that something that you need to bring in? To have somebody talk about mindset? And where are you at? You know, is it do they have other stuff going? I mean, work is part of our lives. It's, it's all of us for entrepreneurial lawyers, like you and I. But for the lawyers that work for us, it may, you know, it may be a very small segment of their lives. If the team is underperforming, can you get into their, you know, into your, into their heads and find out why by using some resources? Or do you shake it up and add a new a player to that?

Seth Price

Well, that's, you took the words out of my mouth, that is sort of where I'm at, because, look, there's the sort of draconian Jack Welch cut the bottom 10% Every year, right. And there's a school of thought to that, versus Hey, bring somebody in, because, you know, there's nothing like somebody who's kicking ass and taking names to sort of push everybody else in that direction.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, so I have a I have a friend of mine, who played who played basketball with me growing up. And he was good friends with Scott Burrell, when they played basketball at UConn together, and then Burrell went to the bulls. And Burrell got pushed around by Jordan and elevated his game. And Jordan was always in his face. And you see that Jordan documentary there. So I was talking to my friend Oliver about it. And he goes, You know, when I would talk to Burrell, he was just like, Jordan was the guy who was just like, look, I'm an avid player, and I am bringing you up, because because you you got to keep up with me. And and they didn't have the same skill level. But he said, you know, he made them better. So maybe that's maybe that's bringing in. And then that leads me to my next topic that I want to talk about with you. And that is the idea of hiring somebody for HR in your office, I was targeted recently with this service called Bambi which is outsourced HR HR for $99 a month, it kept coming up in my social feeds. So I did a call with them. And I wanted to see what they do. And essentially what they do is they give you all your policies that your staff needs to sign off on. So they make sure you have i nine compliance. That's not really HR, if they asked me, that is just making sure that your your, you know, your manual is up to date. And so it's a subscription service for $9 a month, and they make sure that everyone signs off on sexual harassment and anti discrimination practices and all that stuff. And that's something that you could do within your own office. You don't need to spend $99 a month to do that. But who cares?

Seth Price

But you know, what if that's the that you and I have this issue, which is if it solves a problem if it genuinely solves a problem I was just brought. So I'm the worst person to speak to about this because I have dragged my heels on HR hiring historically, like I've been a big believer gotta get accounting and quickly intake is everything. You know, ops was something I brought to the table, but I always just said that HR will just roll that into ops. And I've done that to my positive detriment, you know, for looking at the cost center, as opposed to Hey, the if there is been within HR, that person could be the person that helps motivate and sort of figure out what is going on. Now, the problem that I have struggled with is that very often HR is the secondary thoughts. So even if you do get it you end up with a lower dollar person who may not be as powerhouse And I'd put my money into ops where I've generally had some amazing people and let and just pushed on them. And what I've found is slowly over time as layering the other pieces in so at this point, without a COVID, we contracted during COVID, we now have full ops, HR and recruiting each is three different people. Now all of our viewers don't have the bandwidth or resources to do that, or the need. But figuring out, you know, to me, what I did, right or wrong was rolled that into operations. And that only once there was sufficient need and resources made it a separate position. I think one of the things that we talk about a lot on this show is with outsourcing of certain tasks, that there are many things that can be done overseas now, that can supplement and what I would call your main ops person putting the money into getting one kick ass person, and slowly layering somebody who might be doing all of the payroll prep, somebody who's doing looking at hours, if that's how you work, having people behind the scenes doing all that support. And then once it's needed, the irony being I've found that now that we're remote, in one sense, the need for HR has dropped from where I sit not from my HR person, just because there's less drama, less interpersonal, but you have more of a need to push for and get, you know, activities outside of the office, you have to be very purposeful in getting garbed to your overseas people, whatever it is, they're different. The job description has changed, and what is needed. So what is HR, it means a lot of things to a lot of people trying to be more proactive than what I've done in the past where I've sort of said, Okay, I'll rely on my ops person to roll it in. I think that the more that you can layer tasks out to prop that person up and only pull to a dedicated HR person at the point where you really need it. That's, that's been sort of the, the the pull and tug that I played with.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, I mean, one of the things it seems to me that talking to other people who are doing what we do is they really would love to have somebody who can do the hiring and more, more likely the firing for them, because they don't want to deal with that part. You know, placing the ads on Indeed, or whatever going through the resume submissions, all that stuff. And I haven't been able to find a a I mean, I could I can bring on a remote worker who could do that for me. Well, but I haven't found a vendor that can do that. For me. I don't know what is out there. I mean, could you have a vendor fire somebody for you?

Seth Price

Well, there are organizations that do outsource pieces, but generally like low, let's keep it real with in our world, that there's a certain amount like I think you could add technology, you know, we early went to jazz HR know, there's a gazillion different software's out there. But to me, as you say, HR, what do you mean by that, because it's a continuum, there's ops, there is what I guess pure HR dealing with the people. And then there's recruiting and to me, you know, those are different, and each one needs to be looked at, so that if you're in growth mode, having somebody dedicated to recruiting can save you money, if it allows you not to use recruiters, we're in such a competitive job market, that every dollar I spend internally, is something that I save so similar to marketing, you know, it there's there's a benefit and a place to using outsource marketing that you know, thank God and blue shirts done well with that. But there are certain things in house that if you're a dedicated person that does nothing but something in house, social, you know, as great as, as the things that are you that you've done with outsource the people that succeed best are the people that have a dedicated person in house, whether full time or part time that are implementing affirm flex, or other methodologies to getting social done. And that those that purely outsource it generally don't do as well as somebody where there's a person internally, and I'll just show you, like this is case in point with recruiting, you know, we have a couple positions that I really want to fill. And, you know, one of the reasons I keep internal recruiting is that my theory is that a lot of recruiters are at their core lazy, they go for the lowest hanging fruit to make the most money with the least work where they're just putting an ad up. So if you put an ad up, we got a person that called in on Saturday, it was presented to us by a recruiter on Monday, they did the same thing we could do not that LinkedIn and indeed are cheap. But by doing that, that meant I got talent that would have cost 25% For the cost of the fixed cost of keeping people and then I always use it to keep the recruiters you know, honest, I want somebody who's calling people I can't call theoretical benefit of recruiter is they can go figure out as appropriate without pissing off another law firm and figure out how to To play somebody for you, but if all they're going to do is place an ad on Indeed, then why are you paying 2025 cents on the dollar, when you could just literally do this yourself, which, again, if you have a very small firm, you need one person different. But for somebody who's in scale mode, to me, that's the place. So I've put I went first, from ops, to recruiting to sort of a pure HR person.

Jay Ruane

Let me ask you this. And this is something that in today's market, do you think it's wise to just always have a job posting up on Indeed, or whatever for a lawyer or a paralegal? Because, you know, if you constantly have that up, yes, it's gonna cost you money, you can manage your budget accordingly. But you know, you never know when somebody has a player has a shitty 10 day run at work and says, I want to see what's out there, and then all sudden, you're getting an application? And they wouldn't necessarily, I mean, what do you think about?

Seth Price

Look, I might my philosophy is I don't have one ad out there. I have 10 ads out there. One or two are like must haves. But I know, for example, I am I have, you know, there's a family law dearth of motivated school talent in my market. I've constantly have an ad out there, because I know that if I get somebody who will make me more money, so if you're in a position where you know where your operations are such that additional talent makes you money? My answer is you put it out there. Now a lot of people don't want to scale. Even then, I would argue that like if you're a pie shop, I've never met a pie shop, where additional solid paralegal talent will not be welcomed and make more money for their shop. Right and very, very rare that I've seen, I'm just using that as an example. For a criminal defense shop that has any volume, a solid player with experience that can come in and allow you, J. Ruane to truly take two weeks plus off. You know, that is something that once you have any scale at your firm, there's almost always need. And that's why when I started a blue shark and a sign on my desk, it's an HR play. Like it's not like the playbook is out there. Yes, there's innovation, but so much of it is managing of great people to produce great results. And therefore my bigger, you know, each in each company, there's a recruiter, and at this point, there are three international assistance with that person, one working on international recruiting, one working on domestic, and one is going for the unicorns looking for that person that could you know, add a new practice area or, you know, some sort of raise the game, for example, what I talked about earlier, where I need a rock star, those rock stars don't fall off trees, but if you're always recruiting for it, to me that that's the that is part of the secret to success in the game.

Jay Ruane

Yeah, you know, it's it's, it's really, it's really sort of interesting, you know, pretty, I mean, it's almost like we live in in really strange times, because pre COVID, what works, and your firm was working, my firm was working, you know, what's working now. And I think what the future will continue to work is is significantly different. And we're at a very interesting time in the development of law firms. You see that billboard company Mighty is now doing down mighty law where they're going to partner with local law firms, and cut the fees of pi cases. And I know there was some chatter online about something like that. There's, there's definitely some innovation coming into the market. And I think what was successful in the past, what will be successful in the future is finding those A players, letting them do good things for people. And that's going to keep business coming back and forth. I do have another question for you. Before we wrap up, I don't want to go too long on this week's show, but I have I have a question for you. And I wanted to get your opinion on something. So about a year actually, it's a year ago this week that we hired our videographer photographer, and that has done amazing for us, you know, we've crushed sending out videos or pictures look great on our website. We're doing some really good stuff on social with with what Jake has been able to do very happy with that addition. I think you know, while it does, it doesn't necessarily seen as a profit center. Our brand is growing, and we're really pushing out a lot of stuff. So I'm happy with that. So I was thinking recently about giving him a studio because right now he basically works out of one of our offices. He comes in he sets up his lights we do the videos that he He goes back home, and he does that sort of thing. And I was thinking, you know, there are a couple of, of local areas where there's not a lot of lawyers, but there's a lot of people, you know, you know, the, the sections of Two Cities, New Haven and Bridgeport that are close to us. They have some warehouse space. And I'm thinking, you know, if I got him a studio, where his lights were always set up the, you know, the chair was set up, and we could just show up there 1015 minutes away and bang out videos. He would be great because he would be a lot more effective. He could sit there upload the stuff right to our editor overseas, right from, and I'm thinking it may be a very productive use of his time and our efforts to build a actual studio, which is mind boggling to me as a law firm that we're going to build a an audio visual video studio, but regardless of that, then I was thinking, Well, shit, if I do that, that's technically an office of my law firm. It has a desk, it has a phone. It's got internet access. Could I make that a GMB location? Because, I mean, he's gonna be working there 40 hours a week, and if people walked up, there's Jake to talk to people. You know, is it something that I should consider, okay...

Seth Price

A lot to unpack there. First, I'm a big believer get the GM B's where you want them not where there's a situation. So to me, like, I'm all for luck, because we're gonna talk in a second about the video. Right, awesome. Amazing. To me, put a GMB where you want to have a GMB that's good for your clients that's good for you. Like just like, just because you happen to own a condo somewhere doesn't necessarily 1015 minutes away may not be far enough to get a population center that's effective, given the reviews you're going to need etc. So to me, like, I believe in this in this, go back to the video guy, because you're the one who pushed me to get a video guy I got. I'm glad I did. But it was not a huge success. My first one, I ended up with a person who could shoot video, my FAQ videos were better the site was better. Some of the videos were better for sending out to clients still a work in progress. But that said, it didn't solve my social problem. It wasn't until I got somebody who was essentially a strategist with that. But I believe what I have seen in my time doing this is that the secret to success when you do it is proximity. So I actually like the opposite of that, which is if you want like we are all creatures of habit, if you're going to the office, I don't want you to look somewhere else. See if you can get a closet somewhere within your place love the idea of you're setting up a studio, but to me going somewhere else for that is not ideal, that you want it to be within your place and go get a GMB where you want it that's going to make you money, not because you're you found a warehouse space, but actually where is the most monetizable pin because the cost and effort that it takes to get reviews, you know, meaningful, real, you know, legitimate reviews is not insignificant, I want that to be where it's most needed. And the video piece, I would say we had a guy came in once or twice a week, it was out of sight out of mind, the more they're in your face, the better. And the more that you do stuff off the cuff because the videos we need that make money are not the videos where they're sort of screen and not that they can't be scripted, but that the more that it's part of your DNA and not a side thought I think the better.

Jay Ruane

Okay, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. That's why I wanted to bring it up because, you know, there is some reservation for me, am I going to drive the 15 minutes away?

Seth Price

And then look, I know, I know, we got to wrap up for today. But it brings me to my struggle, which we're talking about next week, which is I got a lease coming up in two years, which sometimes that sounds like a long thing. But in commercial real estate, it's not that much. And I'm going from a footprint that was at its max, I don't know, let's say you know, close to 10,000 square feet pre COVID We were able to bring it down to about 6000 feet, you know, post COVID and we're using that pretty efficiently. But the question is, in a next iteration, am I better shrinking my downtown footprint and then putting like the work from home plugging in a computer into a laptop into a docking station has made it and my better now especially with with traffic as it builds back up putting offices where people are and we're frankly support staff charges a premium in salary needs when they're driving into the city. Am I better off putting offices outside the city where a lot of my competitors are with very inexpensive real estate compared to a modest premium to be downtown but the piece that isn't in there is it parking is 20 bucks a day and that, you know, a monthly parking is a good $300 a month minimum. And that are we going to be to a point where we've ripped the band aid off virtual work is possible. It's not ideal for certain team building pieces. But are we now going to use real estate more smartly also goes to the J thought of, hey, I can put more pins on the map with legitimate offices all over the place. Now you lose the, you know, total esprit de corps, but I have some Rockstar attorneys in DC that if I said go to the suburbs, I would they would break overtime. And I have staff that have that if I put them in the suburbs would be much stickier. Yeah, you want that you don't want people completely disparate. But is there a model where you could use a multi office scenario, especially in urban environments, to try to maximize employee happiness and retention, while at the same time not having a fully virtual work staff?

Jay Ruane

Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting challenge. You know, I can remember years ago talking to some, some friends of mine, and they said, Well, you know, their, their parents hired a lawyer because they had an office right near the courthouse. And so for them 40 years ago, 30 years ago, maybe even 15 years ago, that was a sign of your a good lawyer, because you could afford to be next to the court.

Seth Price

And you should, we should keep that that's what I'm saying is I'm not saying to abandon that...

Jay Ruane

Me neither. But I think my my point is, part of part of deciding where you're going to be in five years, is understanding the mindset, not only of your employees, but of your clientele. I mean, for us in the criminal space, now, we are meeting with the EB 5% of our clients in the office at any one at any point in a month. I mean, it's it's zoom, and it's see at the courthouse, and some people, it's we're never meeting in person, because 100% of this is done remotely on the court side. And so in that respect, I'm looking at my office and saying, Boy, you know, maybe I should, maybe I should, and I've got four years left on my lease, you know, it was a 10 year lease, and I've got four years left on it. I'm thinking at the end of these four years, I should you know, two years from now, I should say, let's take that money on that lease and spread our wings. I don't know.

Seth Price

That we're gonna be talking about it. We'll talk about that next week. The other thing I want to tease, you know, my HR person, we now have a full fledged HR person who's up to speed, and she's like, You should do sexual harassment training. And she's right, some states actually required I didn't, we do Connecticut does. So our friend of the show and a past guest, Dan Schwartz, two things one has a widget built that complies with the two hours required it like 50 bucks ahead. But I said I brought something to him. And I'm hoping he follows through and that we can bring this to our listeners, which is look for states that don't require it. But you should be doing it. You know, can we get some sort of primer that goes out that checks the box for both, you know, inoculation from potential lawsuits later that gets your and also does the right thing, get your staff trained. And I'm working with him right now to hopefully bring that to the law firm, Law Firm Blueprint so that, again, there are men that would spark this is my HR person brought me a SaaS based software $5,000, that might staff over three years could log in and take all sorts of courses, which is great. You know, maybe we want to do that. But the question is, if the answer is what I really care about is a couple of specific trainings. Let's see if we can get those. And, you know, when it's required to be two hours, God bless and do it. But if it's not required to be two hours, let's just make sure that we get something short, sweet to the point and effective. And hopefully, we'll have that for our audience in the future.

Jay Ruane

I love that. I love that. And of course, we put that up in the law firm blueprint. And hopefully, if you're listening to this, you're a member of the Facebook group, the Law Firm Blueprint where you can catch up with myself and catch up with set and our 2000 or so, other law firm entrepreneurs that are out there, be sure to make sure that you are a member of the group, we are posting all sorts of stuff. Last couple of months, we posted all that hiring, managing firing, we've got some of those policies that are going to be coming up in future in future weeks. Seth and I are working hard on putting out a whole bunch of products over the next I guess pretty much the rest of July and all of August, marketing systems marketing presentations we have given things that you can plug and play. If you like doing the marketing in your law firm. It's a great opportunity for you to see some of the things that we have done over the years. I've got some stuff about finding your voice on social, how to set up a content calendar, that type of thing sets got some great stuff we've had Maddie who did her presentation on maximizing your GMB and they've got some other videos and other content that we're gonna put out there. So that's really what the law firm blueprint is all about giving you the stuff that you need to build a law firm that you want, and live the life you want from the practice that you love. Seth, what else do you got for these wonderful people?

Seth Price

We think we got great stuff excited to be back. I'm jazz. You know, I'm excited to work through this the space concept because, you know, we see I know that fully virtual is not something I can get to given our firm's needs. At the same time, I feel like the new normal should be not looked at as business as usual. And can we use space effectively, you know, and figuring out how to maximize employee, you know, satisfaction, reducing commute times, things like that, so that those people that do need to go to the office can can have that reduced.

Jay Ruane

That's awesome, folks. And really, that's what we're all about here. It's all about addressing not only the new normal, but figuring out what the next normal will be and helping you get there faster than your competition. So with that, this is the Law Firm Blueprint. I am Jay Ruane. He is Seth price. You can catch us every week here live 3pm Eastern 12pm Pacific, be sure to join in, of course, catch us up on any of the podcast platforms if you want to keep up with the shows on the go. That's it for now. Bye for now.

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