Hello, hello and welcome to this edition of the law firm blueprint. My name is Jay Ruane. I am the CEO of Ruane Attorneys, a criminal defense firm in Connecticut, as well as the leader of the criminal mastermind group coaching program for criminal defense lawyers all across the country. And with me, as always, my man, Seth Price. Seth, Jennifer Price of Price Benowitz and BluShark Digital down in DC, your law firm SEO provider. And Seth, I want to check in with you to see how your week is going this week. We’re about to hit Labor Day weekend, the summer is over, the year is flying by, we’re two thirds done with the year. How do you think 2023 is working out for you?
You know, in some respects very well, you know, cases coming in things being done. Good news is we have a person leaving after 8-10 years, which is never something I want, I tried to keep the number of people you don’t want to lose on a very short list really, personally devastating, but set up in a way that it won’t be a huge deal. But you know, like it’s the, behind door number two, you just never know what you’re gonna get. And we, you know, had a big HR kerfuffle. This week, something that survived worked on didn’t affect our day to day, but it takes its toll on leadership. And that is another piece which I know you sort of want to talk about how to create your mid-level management. But I think one of the keys to doing that to sort of anticipate the Jay question is making sure that your management itself is right, because only what a solid senior management, can you get your mid-level management, right?
Yeah, you know, it’s really interesting, you know, this year, for me has been a hell of a roller coaster ride. I mean, I think that’s, you know, if anyone’s a regular listener of the program, you know, they know the roller coaster ride that I’ve been on, we’re now sort of in that sort of mellow time. For us, as criminal defense attorneys, the end of the year tends to ramp up after a slower summer, because people are starting to, you know, get back into a system with it when their kids are back in school, and they’re going out more, that type of thing. So, it’s really been interesting, it’s, I’m buoyed, I guess you could say, I had a lawyer who was out on FMLA, leave for four months, they’re coming back after Labor Day, cutting it short by six weeks, because they’re healthy again. So, I’m really excited about that. And that’s…
That’s a win.
That’s a huge win, because while they were gone, we sort of restructured into this pod mentality, and I have a pod that’s waiting for a lawyer to come into, they’ve sort of been treading water. And now he’s going to be able to come in and really sort of fix me up. And I’m really happy with where we are as a firm at this point, you know, totally different sort of breakdown of responsibilities, totally different sort of look and feel of our operations team than we were, you know, six months ago. But that’s one of the things about when you’re running a law firm, sometimes it’s time to make a change, it may get thrust upon you by somebody leaving, like we’ve talked about, it may get thrust upon you by, you know, you discovering new ways of doing things or getting the distance you need to really look at your firm. And that’s something that I wanted to talk about today, right? Because, you know, I’ve made structural changes to the way our firm operates. And I think I’ve been able to do it and do it successfully because I have been intricately involved in every level of our business since we opened our doors. And I kind of have a sense of where things are, and I have an ability to sort of see what might work best when you take all the moving parts and mash them together to make it into a law firm. You know, you see all the moving parts of union firm, I’m sure your partner David doesn’t get to see all the moving parts of your firm and that’s, you know, as Ruane Attorneys, my baby, right? And Price Benowitz was yours. It challenges me to think about where are we going in the future because, and I don’t want to get on a soapbox, I want to get on a rant but, you know, Apple post the Steve Jobs. I’m not comparing my firm to Apple and its innovation but Apple post Steve Jobs. Has Tim Cook in charge and Tim Cook is more of an operator than an innovator, I guess you would say he gets things done and moves and, you know, gets the numbers right and moves things forward. But there is some sort of magic I guess, and maybe I’m blowing smoke up my own but, but there is something magical about being the entrepreneur who’s out there at the tip of the spear Fear, figuring out how to make things work, figuring out how to deal with financial scarcity, figuring out how to break into new markets and do it, that other people don’t have that sort of the, I don’t want to call it magic, I don’t know what to call it, but sort of that, well, I’m gonna get it done. And they figure it out. And, you know, that type of thing. And so I’m wondering, not only do we do, we have to, you know, create, I guess, middle management so that, you know, as our firms scale and grow to 30, or 40 people, we have people that are able to steer or take over steering the segments of the ship that they’re responsible for, you know, I always think of Kramer on the back of that firetruck, you know, going through New York City, old Seinfeld reference for it. But how do you replace the person at the tip of the spear too who’s going to, you know, push the innovation, push the new ideas, that type of thing, instead of being a reactive firm with an operator, you have somebody who’s saying, hey, let’s try this. Let’s do this. What about this? So, you know, it’s a double-sided question. But let’s get…
You have three things that, I’m going to try to be Dr. Price today and see if I can unravel jet. So, to…
Time over and get on the couch. And like…
Yeah, I feel like, you know, one, which is the very end of your comment, which brings us back to our, our interview with the E Myth. The author earlier during COVID would be, hey, is that team responsible for innovation, or they just keep the trains running? In that E Myth world, and that’s your job, and you need to push enough down? That’s a thought question, but that was where you spent most of your time speaking. The two things you talked about that resonated for me was the mid-level management piece. And I would actually push back and affirm your size, how much of it is mid-level management, the older some versus really getting that committee, that leadership team, the C suite, be the C suite, because at 30 people, right? And granted, you know, if you, if you had and again, there are a lot of open seats, whenever we do EOS drills, and you look at what seats are there, like you’re holding multiple seats, as those fill up, you would have more time for that, right now, if you’re being honest, you probably hold several of the seats in that EOS structure, which is not, it’s a work in progress. But it’s taking you away from Jay innovative, you’re like oh, you know, I like I’m doing this with Social, I’m doing this with the, with the criminal mastermind, there are things you could do and you lock in, you’re doing them. But you now have a firm, especially with some people leaving going in and out where so to me, what I have seen, and it’s actually I’ve seen it more clearly from BluShark, the management team of BluShark really tight, can’t take credit for this person in charge of content, links, technical, you know, with each of these different people, HR, you know, we have our presenters are integrated with each of these things. And what’s amazing because this is a bunch of Gen Z ers and Jordan nostra flows when I talk about like, the because it’s gonna be part of you need these, you’re gonna want some of these Gen Zers in this mid-level management as you grow. And we were talking about this offline, but the fact is that the when this works right, you take each of your leaders, and then they bring the EOS down the step to the person who’s in the trenches, and you start running like a mini-EOS for each of those divisions. That’s the highest calling, that as a law firm, even as a pretty advanced law firm in a lot of ways. It’s really tough we, we have the meetings, but they’re really just meetings that we say what we will like, how do we feel this week versus really following whatever one of those programs is within Eos, that allows you to do a meeting, set fire set rocks, whatever it is you want to do that when you get there, then you’re at the next highest level for most people listening to this. Like, let’s just focus on the first one, which, frankly, is probably where you’re at when you fill this in. How many of those positions do you have an independent leader that you love versus you’re sort of in multiple seats at the same time?
That’s a really good question. I mean, for my intake, I have a leader that I love. For my, while reception kind of folds into intake, and that’s a question…
That may be administrative slash and that person who’s great for that seat. But are they your administrative person for the firm?
Right. I have a personnel director that is great in that role. My marketing director is great, but I tend to have a heavy thumb on the scale in marketing because it’s something that I think I have exceptional knowledge in. And I also the light in because I, you know, I come, you know, and this is part of my own baggage, I think coming to running a firm have, you know, I built my firm from nothing. So, I came from this position of scarcity of resources. And so, you know, I would figure out ways to do things cheaper, faster, you know, get it 80% or 90% of the way there without having to do the spend. And so, you know, my marketing director might come to me and say, hey, we want to do X, Y, or Z, I’m like, give me a few minutes to think about it. And I’ll come up with a way to slash the budget by 50% and get 90% of the way there. So, I think that’s, I think maybe my marketing director is held back by me. And that’s probably something that I definitely need to talk to Dr. Price about and get out of the way. And I’m recruiting right now to try to find somebody to run the legal apps a little better, and be a mentor to my younger lawyers, because I think that’s the next way to go. And then I’d have a really good C suite, my financial stuff is on point. I’m really happy with where we are and where we’re going. So, we’re almost there. But yeah, I mean, I never thought I was going to need middle management at all. Like I said, I could just do it all.
And it’s not that you, it’s, you don’t start out wanting it, it’s that without it you’re not running as well. Because, as you look, and that’s why I’m sort of, again, without knowing more, like, what’s the intake, how many people are on your intake team right now.
Five.
That… running it…
So, Seth, we’re actually eight, if you count, you know, the people who do the initial screens, and then pass it on.
So, what happens is, you’re sort of like eight, you know, seven with a direct report. That’s the, high end, reasonable. So, what you want to do is, before you get to mid-level management, you said, how do you, before you started, how do you do it? Well, you have a person who’s in charge. Now, and again, this is something that our, our head of intakes does a wonderful job with, is creating team leads, and those team leads get it now, it’s gonna be a while before that person at the top of your pyramid doesn’t touch all of your people. But over time, if you had a team lead that ran the initial screen piece, and you had a team lead that helped you with, let’s say, if you’re doing the, you know, your one of your divisions, speeding tickets, or whatever, over time, you could then slot people beneath those people, plus, you’re creating a leadership bench to go up. But at the moment, it really it is with seven direct reports, you’re still within the realm of reason for not needing that middle level management. But if you start creating that and creating the opportunity…
If I go to three teams of three and one, you know, Team Leader, that makes a lot more sense.
Well, it doesn’t make more sense. It’s giving opportunity, you’re creating a bench for people, if God forbid, your head person leaves, you’re basically allowing people to know what you’re going to find, as we all know, of those three, the odds of three of them being great. One of them will probably break from a leadership point of view, what have you, but you’re doing the right things to push forward. Because otherwise, you’re going to blink one day have 15 people on that team, we went from 13 to 30, during COVID. And that those team leads became the mid-level managers who then have people under them. And so, it’s, you do by creating those early sorts of opportunities. I think it then hopefully, naturally flows when you’re ready to sort of say I do need mid-level management.
Yeah. So, I mean, the way we’ve sort of approached it with our, with our legal pods is that we’ve actually put our paralegals as the head of the pods. And so, the lawyers are sort of plug and play, but the paralegals are the ones who’ve been here for 15 years, and they have experience with a lot more in the operations of the firm than the lawyers do, especially some of the newer lawyers that have joined us. And so that’s really a system that’s working. So, in that respect, I’m getting some management out of out of those paralegal positions.
Right. And it’s an, it’s a management with essentially a sense, in a way, you’re replicating what big law does where you practice group leaders, right? Who sort of wrangle people get the hours in, do those things. Yeah, it’s like you, it’s trial and error, you have a unique model, as we know, everybody, you know, everybody is different. Not that we should say, hey, Jay is doing it this way. We must do it that way. And you know, it’s funny, I was on a digress since this part of our shows. I’m on a panel in Nashville the other day and somebody’s asking, like, what’s the biggest mistake people make? And I don’t know if I agree or disagree, but some people one of the marketers was like, h1 lawyers follow the herd. Somebody’s doing this. We must be doing this. And I feel like what I love about our show, is we’re going to tell what we’re doing and I hope it isn’t like, well, Jay has a paralegal running his pod, I must do that because if you have a different situation with the lawyers or the senior people, they will be like this isn’t going to work for me. Or, you know, it’s picking and choosing, just like in marketing. This is what my market, my laws are like this, I can get away with this. I like what they’re doing. But it’s not understanding what works for you and what doesn’t. So, I hope when people who consume the content of the show, it sounds like more and more, that the advantage that we’d like to throw out here is to open your eyes and think about it. But it’s not like, hey, because I have 30 intake people you need it, there are people that could probably do what I’m doing with 15 or 10. And that the fact that Jay is doing it this way, but there’s just at least it’s making you think, is this what’s right for me, and then putting it on a list. But it’s not to be reactionary saying, hey, it’s being done this way, I got to do it that way. And I really hope because that our tribe is better than that, but looks at it introspectively and incorporates for what’s right your market.
Well, and that goes back to my point earlier on, because how do you replace the Seth Price of Price Benowitz? How do you replace the Jay Ruane of Ruane Attorneys? Because we have put ourselves number one out there to see what other law firms are doing. And try to take the best of other law firms and figure out a way to apply it to the models that we have. Because, you know, your system for your PI practice is probably visibly different than the way you had your when you had an immigration practice structure or your criminal practice structure as it is now. So, like, what I’m saying is, is how do we as responsible owners, because I feel a level of responsibility to my employees that had been with me for 20 years, and may not be ready to retire when I decide I want to retire. How do you, is it just, hey, innovation stops at that point that the leader leaves, and then it is just ride this machine as long as it goes. Because that’s not really sustainable, you need to have some level of innovation.
Okay, I’m gonna bring this back to you. We’ve had people on the show, some friends of the show, like help package up law firms for sale, and there’s a guy in the DC market, I like the fun guy like him. And he’s always every time I see him, I’ve sold the firm, I’ve sold the firm to one of my people. And then next thing I know the deal didn’t work out, you know. And it’s like, part of it is if we want real value, there has to be value without you. If Jay Ruane is hit by a bus, what happens to the firm? The firm, my guess is better than it was. But there is a huge value difference, right? Within without. And so, it’s sort of what’s the talk, actually, in Nashville, which is there are a lot of firms that are shittier, they don’t do great work, they push prelist stuff through, but they operate with a partner sitting in bliss. You know, what a friend of the show is in Mexico has traveled the world amazing guy, his firm probably is worth more as a multiple, because somebody could come in and make money from it, rather than without the secret sauce being there. And again, you’re in your prime earning years, you know, go earn some money. There’s nothing wrong with that. But be aware that if you have this, this notion that you’re going to flip the firm for a sale, which is again, another another sort of tangent, but that I always look at this, we just had a another a different friend of the firm in Pennsylvania sell the firm and there was an old partner and a younger partner. And it was like the older partners getting paid out over time. To me, that’s the classic way to sell. And when as the more I learned about when you sell things for multiple of EBITA. And then if you have a pie firm that God forbid, sells for 3x EBITA, which is a huge deal. Its earnings after, you know after you pay your taxes and all sorts of other stuff. The point is when you take that out, rather, the whole point of this is that if you’re at best, selling this for a year revenue, and walking away, that that’s at best, and that there are things where you know what, if you got 15 years left or 10 years left, do you want stuff to work without you, you want those systems, you want to aim towards the myth. But if you can maximize stuff by being that innovator and building that stuff out because likely if Jays hit by a bus, nobody’s moving into new markets, you know, right, gene that runs for the foreseeable future until it doesn’t, but it’s not going to be pivoting left and right. It’s going to basically be here’s the structure. We’re known for criminal in our state, for DUIs let’s make sure we maximize budget and run. So, I don’t know if that answers the question, but it sort of sort of puts the puts out there, which is, you know, is it so bad that Jay is that visionary leading the charge as long as his He’s ticking and can remain there. It’s frustrating because you wish you bought built a widget that didn’t need you, but you haven’t.
Right, right. And then the question is, the more systems you have, the less likely they are to need to rely on you. But there’s always going to be something propping up every week that you can’t have predicted you can’t have planned for, and you can’t have a system in place already for. I mean, I can tell you how to cash checks that people walk through the door. But you know, it’s just there’s things that are unexpected, and you need somebody who can bob and weave in and make decisions. And the question I have is, I’m starting to see in this younger generation, a lack of being able to just, you know, figure it out.
Look, I think some of that’s unfair. I mean, it’s this isn’t, you know, there is plenty of that generation that is…
Maybe they’re not going to law school. Maybe those people aren’t going to law school, they’re going to sign…
Some might not be, and some are not working under the Jay Ruane umbrella, you know, they just don’t have an interest, some do. And so, look, no doubt, this is a conversation I hear across the country. But it’s not like, you know, if you said, hey, I see less people willing to grind. I think you’re 1,000%. Right. That’s the Jordan Ostra sort of laugh joke that we talked about. But that said, it’s not that these, they may be smarter than us because they get their work done. And how much stuff do we do on a weekend that doesn’t need to be done on a weekend because you know what, the kids are annoying us at some level, we want to do that. Or, hey, if I grind that much harder, but like we are like on the present to be able to say, you know, what if I really recharge my battery? Would I be better off just dealing with this on Monday versus sopping up? It’s how we were brought up. So, it’s very hard to separate.
Well, I think it’s also how we’re wired in that, you know, I don’t I don’t play golf, you know, I tried playing pickleball and I gotta get back and play. I had to like three lessons. And then I gotta get back on it. But it’s like, my hobby is my business. Like, I really enjoy building this. I mean, I will build a deck at my house. I have a friend who’s a great woodworker, you know, he works at a big bank in the city. He comes home on the weekend. And he loves to do woodworking. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t do that stuff. And he jokes. He’s a guy, you don’t build anything. You don’t do anything with your hands. I’m like, no, but I build a law firm that employs, you know, 35 people, now it’s gonna give a look by
The ad is 88. He still practices, he’s still doing his probate work, you know, it’s like he’s, you know, and I’m convinced that it’s what’s kept him going, that if you retire, you use it or lose it. So that said, he much of that mentality, though, is in like, is counterproductive to E Myth is if you want to eat myth, you need to make yourself not essential, and you got nothing better to do, you’re not going to make yourself not essential, because this is what you need to be essential.
Right. Exactly. So, this is the conversation I had with my wife, she, you know, the other day, she was like, you’re a workaholic man. She’s like, she’s like, you’re not gonna find another hobby. She’s like, you’re never going to retire, you’re always going to be thinking about some business. And I said, well, I’d love to get to a point with my kids, where I could just be an advisor to them building a business. And she’s like, but what if your kid wants to be a teacher? I’m like, Ah…
But for better or for worse, you got to Delta before your kids are in play.
Yeah.
And that, you know, could get there. But it’s, it’s, you know, it’s getting closer, but it’s still a lot, you know, I don’t know, are you going to be in this role in 10 years?
I don’t know. I don’t know what I want that. And that’s part of the problem. You know, I, when I’m in this, you know, when I started this firm, I wanted to eat and pay my student loans.
When I started the firm, I wanted to pay my real estate debt.
I mean, that’s, why didn’t do it, you know, I’m curious, you know, for our audience out there. Why did you start? Like, was it I needed to do, I needed to be an entrepreneur, I was sick of my boss yelling at me. What like, what…
There were, there were no jobs and I make a list. You know, and rather than get a firm job somewhere, I figured, hey, module build on my own thing. That’s…
I’m just curious why other people have sort of launched and, you know, for me, and it’s interesting, Marco Brown has also a friend of the show posted something he’s like, you know, we’re always measuring ourselves by where we want to go. But what you need to do is actually look to see how far you’ve come. And he was like, you know, I’m 40 times when I earned my first year as a business. Now as a firm, and he’s like, I shouldn’t be proud of that. Yet, I’m saying to myself, I need to get to 50 times. But to go from zero to 40 is pretty amazing. And you should…
Understood. And I, when I look at, like, for me, it’s one of the great things about having in person events, you know, summer parties’ interview is that those are those moments where you’re like, wow, all these because especially as we get more and more virtual, there are people around. But how many people do we have in the entire world that you’re keeping employed on another continent? It is humbling. At the same time, I think it also can be daunting, because if you realize what’s on your shoulders on a day-to-day basis, the number of people that are waiting for paychecks to pay to feed their families that come because you send it out, that’s a scary, scary product.
Oh, it’s shockingly scary. When you realize, I mean, I, you know, I have a longtime employee been with me the longest. And, you know, she’s like, you know, if you’re the see, you know, she said, you’ve been the one steady person in my life. She’s like, for, you know, 25 years, Jay, I know, I can count on you. And I haven’t been able to count on other people, you know, she’s got three boys, and they’re growing, and they’re going off to college. And she’s like, I know, I can call you whenever I need something, and you’re gonna figure out a way to make me work. I mean, I will be able to move her to where she needed to be. Give, you know, the other moms say…
We had a lawyer way before COVID, your tenure for COVID said, I want to resign, I’m moving to New York, and I’m like you can’t resign, we’re putting we’re moving into New York. And she’s still with us to this day. So, there’s a lot of positive, but that’s but then that I’m gonna bring it full circle so we can get out of this land the plane, that is the stuff we’re both good at and enjoy. And it helps the firm. If I had lost that person, which would have sucked because they’d been a very valuable person, I would have had a more scalable business that, it was my ingenuity that figured that out. What can you do without it? And that’s the humbling part where I, again, in a perfect world, somebody’s like, how do you split your time BluShark and Price Benowitz? It’s like, if I can work on those higher-level problem-solving things. Great. And the question is, where is it? There’s a, you know, there’s a super lawyer bill that’s out of control. I tried to push it down. Is it just not good, like, how much do you bring back to yourself? And how much do you allow to be delegated? We say this is a month, this is a multi-thousand monthly type endeavors. This is not like nothing. But with each of these things, how much do you have to be there for and I would say the cool thing that I noticed, again, I’m very back to Eos, that at BluShark where I’ve done a much better job. So, it was, it was built more purposefully, I don’t generally have rocks, that if you get to the point where all the rocks are being done by other people, that to me may be the highest calling of that of the entrepreneur, where you’re getting them, you have your own personal things outside of the operation of the business where you’re like, hey, should I move to this market or that market? And you could include that in your rocks or not, right? Generally, in the operation of a firm, you can get to the point where the rocks are not your you’re not doing the heavy lifting to me, then you start getting to that next level. And that may be that’s sort of the Epiphany I’ve had which is pushing to the point where if you book that tomorrow, just got me we’ve talked about last week, who not how, if we fill in your whose are you then able to really work on the stuff at the next level, or do whatever you want, you don’t have the hobbies. But you know, so I leave it with that.
That was a lot to unpack from today’s show. I mean, this was this was not a show about, you know, what software you should use to be able to run your HR. This is getting really to the heart of why it is what we why we built the things that we built. And I think this is something that requires some reflection, because there are some people who are, you know, along on this journey, who may or may not really want to have these deep thoughts. And that’s something that they have to consider, you know, maybe they do need to align with a partner who can have those deeper thoughts for them. Or maybe they’re not, you know, in a position where they are willing to give 40 years to building something that then they have to leave. You know, that’s it’s, it’s interesting. It’s, you know, I never thought when I hung a shingle 22 years ago, and it’s 22 years ago, tomorrow, that I hung my shingle. I never thought that this was where I would be at at all. You know, I thought I’d be, you know, I had one secretary, maybe I’d have to second one with, you know, one other lawyer and that would be and now I’ve got, you know, five offices, and I’ve got staff across the world. And it’s just sort of mind blowing.
I also think there are points in the journey for many of our listeners and I, where you got to put your head down and just get stuff done. And then if you’re constantly thinking about them that the sort of bigger, then you may not get there. So, like, especially at the beginning, where you need to get critical mass before you have something clay to work with.
Well, and that’s the question. I mean, I guess it goes back to my other question is like, how do you know when you’ve got critical mass because I can fill some of the spots with my revenue, but I need more revenue to add more of those seats? And how do I get more revenue? Is, I gotta work a little harder, or put more people in the seats to be able to build more any more lead flow? It’s got there’s so many questions that goes into it.
And histories written by the victor, like, is there an exact number you need to be at? But like I see people that essentially have a job, how do you move from the job into where there’s enough that you can run a business ever since it’s really your sweat equity?
Well, you know, it’s interesting, this, this, this conversation that we’ve had today sort of mirrors a little bit about Tiger Tactics Two which is going to be coming out later this fall. And it really sort of follows us 13 co-authors in our journeys, and what we’ve identified that we need to be able to go from a law firm owner to a law firm CEO, and I’m really excited about that coming out, the audio book is in production. This week, I should have a pre-press copy of that to share with the co-authors later on. And so, if you haven’t already read Tiger Tactics One, be sure to pick that up on Amazon, but be prepared for Tiger tactics Two with some great co-authors with us. That’s going to come and talk a little bit about this. And it’s really an unpacking because everybody sort of approaches their chapters a little differently. I’ve had the benefit of being able to read it multiple times as I’m spearheading the publication of it, but I’m excited for the world to get to read it and see there from but I said, I think we’ve gotten long enough for today. It’s, you know, I don’t want to, I don’t want to belabor this point, because this is something that we can talk with me on the couch all day. I’m sure I’ll talk to my therapist later this week about some of the stuff that we talked today. But folks, if you want to catch us, please always you can take us on the go by subscribing to the podcast on Apple, on Google podcasts, on Spotify. Wherever you get your podcast, be sure to download the law firm blueprint podcast subscribe and give us a five-star review so that we know that you are following. And of course, you can always catch this show in the Facebook group, the law firm blueprint please join us if you are a podcast listener and you haven’t joined it where I share some systems that we’ve put into place. There’re hundreds of them that are posted now. Seth, I got nothing else. I’m sort of running on empty now.
Have a great rest of the week. And I will see you right back here.
Yeah. So, folks, we’re going to end it today. Be sure to take us on the go this Labor Day weekend when you want to escape from your kids and work on your business, maybe listen to an episode of the show. Otherwise, we will see you. Have a fantastic weekend. I hope you have some wonderful time with your family. And we’ll see you later. Bye for now.
Subcribe to our newletter to receive news on update
