S5:E26: Elevate Your Firm in the New Year

On the first Law Firm Blueprint episode of 2024, Seth and Jay discuss a gamut of topics including Seth’s love for the NTL conference, and when (or when not to!) expand into new practice areas. Additionally, Seth and Jay discuss how they are in a hiring frenzy and the challenges associated with receiving many qualified applicants that they must manage. The pair also discuss how to approach employees giving notice, and the proper timetables for both bringing someone new into your firm as well as transitioning from someone exiting.



Jay Ruane 0:07

Hello, welcome to this edition of the law firm blueprint. I’m your host, Jamie Wayne. And that man over there, Seth price down in DC, talking all about stuff. He’s coming back from another trip. You know, we’ve got a lot of stuff to talk about this week in the law firm blueprint Seth and I want to start it with, I’m on your social media and I see are with all these people in the warmth while I’m freezing my buns off up here in New England. I mean, we got some snow but it’s awfully cold. How was Miami with I love

Seth Price 0:36

NTL I’m the biggest cheerleader first you and my wife had the same issue which is she’s sitting there four out of five days off with snow for the week getting away with school Thursday. The kids NGL to me is like my second business home. Started by Keith Givens natural trial lawyers. It’s at the loads, it’s all but two years have been at this amazing hotel, which is sort of self contained. At night, people may go somewhere, but there’s so much on property, the pool scene, the cabanas, you know, and look, it’s designed, there’s a business of law track. And then there’s this substance track. So imagine where I am. And I love it. They I helped program an entire afternoon, three and a half, four hours of digital marketing masterclass. I was on a panel that ended up dovetailing back into digital marketing the next day, and it’s just, you know, for me, I walk around and you go somewhere, you know, three times you got friends, so you got a dozen years. It’s really like some lifelong friends. In Ultimate environment. Again, I think what makes it special for me, is the way this hotel is set up. There’s one big as you’ve been to one big sort of common area by the bar restaurant, and you have access to anybody you want. Mike Papantonio sitting there, Keith Gibbons, people who are like these amazing business, legal minds are there and relatively accessible, you know, break into their their meetings, but generally, it is a very collaborative communal environment. I just love it.

Jay Ruane 2:11

Yeah, you know, it’s funny, I was looking at my own timeline, my memories on my Facebook app. And it’s there was a couple pictures of me on the stage back in January of 2020, which was the last thing we did before the world shut down, basically. And I’m thinking, Gosh, that was only 40 years ago, before the world shut down. It seems like it was a lifetime ago. Now. I mean, I can’t believe that we’re only really two years post COVID. And I mean, not really, because people start getting it. Well, I really

Seth Price 2:44

Find it right. I mean, that’s the other piece that was sort of fascinating. You know, my world, people still are, you know, going quarantining and doing doing what they’re supposed to do after they get COVID wrestles are testing. So it’s really an I don’t think did for quite a while. So it’s just fat. I remember being in Florida during COVID, during the heart of it, pretty vaccinations and wearing a mask was making a political statement. It’s just so what’s neat there is you have people from all over the country coming together. So you get all these different perspectives. And, you know, when I looked at my plaintiffs numbers, but pie practice numbers, we took some hits, because our area was shut down for a while, and those cases trickled out. So 23 was not nearly as strong as other years, simply based on some some down inventory months. You know, when we were doing these podcasts, you know, a lot of stuff came back quickly, like criminal, but stuff like PII really didn’t.

Jay Ruane 3:42

Yeah, I’m curious, I don’t really have it. I think you had one at the time. Did you have a trust in the state’s practice, then were people rushing to get that stuff in? Or is it still, I mean, I mean, think about it, if you don’t have the incentive to get your trust documents and your will and everything in the place. If you’re at that age, and there’s a worldwide pandemic going on. It’s gonna take a lot to get you off your couch to actually get that stuff done. You know, so I think that certainly impacted Have you seen any bounce back with that area? You know, whatever, bounce

Seth Price 4:15

Back, I think people were using some of that dead time to do stuff. That group has grown modestly over the years. And, you know, I think the trends that I always see is January, bunch of people usually pass away around the holidays, and just seeing this now some friends parents, and so you see a little bit but but I can’t tell you that we went through the roof where I did see you go through post pandemic or post lockdown was family law. Oh my god. The bump that that practice area got, like I can tell you from my own personal circle, the number of people getting divorced, was not insignificant. And that we talked a lot on the show I jettison, for instance, saw during COVID that immigration Just wasn’t comporting well the rest of our practice, and sort of punted that out and tried to clean some stuff up. But there were certainly areas that that were benefited. And when I say that PII wasn’t as bad economically during COVID, because you were settling cases. But what I think what we just saw right now, at the end of 23, was there was sort of some of those bad months of case acquisition comes to roost when that normally would have been a higher number then and settling now. You

Jay Ruane 5:28

Know, it’s interesting, because that that leads to a bigger conversation, I think that anybody can have it is, you know, when you are settled into a practice area, should you look to expand that practice area and bring in another one a different one? Or should you wait until you have critical mass in a practice group, before you spread your wings into a new practice area where, for example, you know, I’ve had a couple of calls, we’ve gotten a couple of calls in the recent past for Title Nine, university discipline, that type of stuff, which is tangentially related to criminal defense in that there’s sometimes criminal allegations that go with it. And I keep saying to my team, look, we don’t have, I don’t want to go out and hire a lawyer for a dozen of these cases a year, I don’t want to necessarily build a whole practice area around it when we have so much opportunity still for us in the criminal space in Connecticut. And that’s the question I posed, I mean, you’ve done it, you’ve, you’ve built a lot of things. But it’s stuff

Seth Price 6:32

That I was like, Oh, I’m gonna be the master of prison death cases, or I’m gonna do Title Nine, and this and that, and they’re all They’re all viable. I think that like most things, my philosophy has always been Go big or go home. If you were passionate about Title Nine, and you brought somebody in with some expertise, or you went and got yourself in it become an expert, great. There’s a guy my market that I just love just broke off from his, his, his firm for many years, where he’s like, the title nine guy. And like those cases, if you’re the guy with the pedigree, he is, you know, Ivy League law school and in Ivy League, everything with you a USAA experience, that guy can get those 40 to $150,000 cases from parents, but getting an extra 10 or $15,000. You know, as as a case, you know, you could just replicate more felony cases, if that’s what you wanted to do. Do you need to niche down? I think that the bigger question you started with is niching, down versus not niching down, and it’s easier advice to give than take niching down makes you more money. Did I follow that? No. But I also like in hindsight, may have been something that I’ve been thinking a lot about. I planted my plaintiff, state, DC, Maryland, Virginia contrib in all three jurisdictions, not a great people that make a buck, don’t get me wrong, but compared to Florida, California, did people make bucks in these places that are unbelievable. We really there aren’t that many people crushing it? Is there one firm that gets like a mere referrals? Maybe, but it is not a place that you go to make your riches, like I would have made a lot more money. If I had my digital presence in any other state. You know, I would have done a lot better partially why I expanded criminal, because if you’re doing 15 million in criminal, like, that’s more than most PII practices. Right. Right.

Jay Ruane 8:19

That’s, and that’s one of my thing, like, I mean, if I can expand my criminal, you know, I’m mid seven figures, I think I can get to eight figures with criminal, you know, in the next couple of years now that I’ve got my pods working and my systems dialed in. And I’m really, you know, and we’re growing, I mean, 25% a year growth over the last couple of years. And as astoundingly, a lot of its company, by way of referrals, or referrals are blown through because I’m one of the great things about it is I’m actually paying attention to those referrals and trying to nurture them. And I think a lot of our stuff are coming in from boomers that have started to slow down, and they want to send stuff in

Seth Price 9:00

A lot you pay dues over the years. I mean, who else shows up in a random t shirt at a bar event? I mean, you you have this is not this is an accident. This is an accidental

Jay Ruane 9:10

No, but that’s the thing. I was planning a long game. I was playing a long game. And part of my conversation with you is you know, if I’m getting referrals from now, you know, a general practice firm that now is decided we’re only going to do PII and family, we’re not going to bother getting up in the morning and running the criminal court. Let’s just send them all to Bruce Wayne. You know, if I open up a pie practice, well, those things dry up, probably because now they see me as a competitor. I don’t see myself as theoretically

Seth Price 9:38

I understand what you’re saying at the same time. I think it’s overstated. I don’t know like the pie is a whole different issue for you in general, but I don’t want it you put you’re replicating something, but the thing to be careful about look, I’ve been very very fortunate of late you know, you locally me at these conferences. My phone is constantly getting pinged with risk orals but as we both know, this is not like one to one, like every referral is monetizable. You know, it’s a, you know, number of people Oh, thank you, I’ll give your name to somebody they ever, like, you try to tighten it by a whole nother conversation about to me, if somebody wants to refer to me, I want an email intro to that person I can give to my intake, the idea that you’re giving my name to somebody don’t even don’t even bother reaching out.

Jay Ruane 10:24

Well, that’s why we get rid of business cards, I got rid of business cards for my lawyers, they don’t get issued business cards, they have a digital card, that they can put our contact information into the clients phone,

Seth Price 10:36

Well, I’m gonna give you something here. This is maybe the best advice I give you all day. To me, those are dangerous unless you do one thing to go and give a digital business card is almost worthless, in my opinion, right to me, unless the person or they you get there either way, but unless the person hits send, and an email goes back and forth, not just download of their phone, because once it’s downloaded to their phone, like not even worth the time it is to get it downloaded better than nothing. We think a lot of ourselves, are they going to remember the associate they met? No.

Jay Ruane 11:12

So here’s what we do. When they download the business card. It doesn’t say our name. It says lawyer, attorney, first name, lawyer, second name attorney with a phone number. And if they say they want to get in touch with us, in order to put the number we we train on this when we onboard our new lawyers and our staff, in order for you to whip out the business card and you put it into their phone, you have to say now give me your number. I’m going to have somebody reached out to you taking away the business cards, and having our people say no, no, if you want to hire us, give me you know, the people in the courthouse in the lobby that type of thing. Or somebody out at a bar. Oh, I got you know, I want an expungement for give me your information, My people will call you we know

Seth Price 11:52

That’s for a case. But what do you what about when you’re networking they meet? So hey, do you have a card? Right? And you give the digital business card and a regular paper one, right? I do the plastic ones. I literally remember the other day somebody had it from four years earlier sitting in there, but not that I made any money from it. But what I’m saying is when you give a digital business card, yes, if it’s in a live case, we’re going to call you right away. I get that, right. Who cares if you give him a business card that you’re calling them, right that the business cards irrelevant. But if you’re putting your phone number into somebody’s phone, in less, so great, it’s in their phone, I love the fact use word that’s wonderful. But unless the person sends a message and get social, if somebody gives me, for example, they don’t have a card, I’m at a conference. And they say here’s my digital business card. Great. It’s in my phone. worthless, right? I’m not going to remember the 1500 people I met last weekend. But if I hit Send with a nice to meet you and see see my team that can put them into the drip campaign that can do all those things, hit them on LinkedIn, it’s my protocol, theoretically send them a handwritten note when they do when they do it, which was great. And when we lose somebody, they retrieve all of that said, if you can do that, how much better is that and it’s just sitting in a phone, because sitting on the phone, I just, I’m just cynical that that’s doing anything. And that I think that the digital business actually does a little bit of harm.

Jay Ruane 13:12

It may not be doing anything. I mean, the reality is, is I know I’ve never deleted a contact for my phone. And I’m just thinking of the whole, hey, they scroll through the things they say, Oh, I’ve got this lawyer attorney, God forbid they need somebody they remember, Oh, I’ve got a lawyer in my phone, I can give you that number. Hey, maybe I strike gold. I mean, I’m not looking at this isn’t something where I know that there’s oil under the, you know, where I’m gonna go tap in for it, it’s maybe something comes up. But what I really wanted to talk to you today about is notice, you know, we had another attorney who’s leaving us taking a job with the state. And that’s, and that’s all well and good. I mean, I want people to find their path in life, whether it’s with me for you know, three years or 30 years, or even three months. If you do this is not the place for you. I’d rather know sooner rather than later before I invest in a lot yet. But it seems that there is a ton of tick tock content about you don’t owe your bosses anything, you can just quit. You don’t have to give them any notice. There’s this concept of two week notice, which I think really comes from like Ford factories in the 1930s where it’s like, you need two weeks to be able to put somebody into that role and teach them how to stamp the metal machine. So two weeks, you know, that’s assuming that you have somebody who’s ready to be hired. But I can’t believe that, that in our industry. Two Weeks Notice for a lawyer is sufficient to turn over your files. It

Seth Price 14:44

Isn’t and for the most part, the better employees don’t do that. I was just interviewing somebody today. And they were they like three and a half, four weeks is what they need. And I never push back when somebody needs more time for next to knowing. So I’ve had people ask for five or six weeks to do a transition, which is, which is not unsubstantial. But I think the flip side is, is what is the company culture, when it comes to how do you treat exits, because I just had an interesting situation where somebody left the firm, and somebody else got very nervous about themselves. And it’s tough because you don’t want for HR purposes to say anything disparaging or otherwise about the person leaving. However, at the same time, I want somebody else to know, hey, you’re not in the same league as somebody else. And that you have nothing to worry about. So you have that piece. But one of the reasons I always we’ve always been, you know, pushed for severance has been as much as it may suck, and the person may have done terrible things and not been a great player, is that I want to make sure that it’s a two way street. That just you could we could be on a soapbox, hey, two weeks is not enough. But if you walk somebody out the door, which happens, you know, for a bunch of reasons, are you giving that flip side where the people the people know, almost like an understanding, because I think what they’re getting at is what those tiktoks are getting at is they’re gonna walk you out the door and say goodbye, why do you owe them anything? Now, frankly, hopefully, we don’t have the people that are subscribing to those channels. It’s like somebody said the other day, you know, are you concerned about a negative Glassdoor review? Nobody wants them? And somebody said something the other day, which is like, are the people you really want going down those rabbit holes? You know, and that, you know, again, it just struck me for the first time I’m sure some people I want our don’t give it it’s like nobody, but for the most part, the people that really want to work know your firm, they know people there they know about you. They’re not like, you know, make your breaking based on that if you want to marry up if something is a three nine versus a four, two, are you really making your distain decision based on it, maybe the back of your mind, but if that’s if that’s a, you know, a great St. Regis, you’re going to it, and if something’s a crappy Fairfield, you know, what you’re walking into, you don’t need the, you know what you’re getting. So I come back to this, which is, I do agree, and I’ve had this these moments over time, that short notice isn’t there. But the flip side is, if somebody and I feel like you’re right now in that raw moments, that as much as there’s angst, if your system set up with ruining processes, that the truth is you need a lot less than you think you need when somebody goes, because they’re not taking new cases, it’s not like the old days when you started when you wanted to, because you need somebody doing the work. Once somebody gives notice, they should be, you know, their job, you’re sitting down the next day, and everything’s off their plate, there are times I’ve had where three or four days in, were good. Not always, I’m just saying, you know, there. And again, what you’re dealing with is an unusual one, where though no cases are being taken, right, but you have to reassign. And again, if done properly, it probably takes a lot less time than you think. At the same time, there are times when his money or I remember, right, you know, during cold war, you physically need a body sitting there. And every day there there is one less day of pain. That’s not what you’re talking about.

Jay Ruane 18:15

Right? And I’m not I’m just, you know, I’m putting it out there. You know, one of the things that we’re going to start doing is when we onboard people, is we’re going to have a policy about terminations and that type of thing. And one of the things that we’re going to say is that if you’re resigning with notice, we would like for weeks, just so that we can be covered. And you know, because it does take a while to get to and that’s across the board on anything. And I think you know, I’m not a prime, I don’t have a problem with paying out four weeks of severance. So I think

Seth Price 18:44

It’d be the other way around. If you said, we promised that if it doesn’t work, we’ll do it. That adds a lot of credibility to that for we cut, not that you’re always gonna get it, the new employer says, But, you know, maybe

Jay Ruane 18:55

I should do that, you know?

Seth Price 18:58

Genuis if you say I want four weeks, but I’m not giving four weeks, and like, you’re gonna have time to honor that you’re gonna pay some guy who was awful and stole time from you and this and that. But I genuinely believe that would that would nobody could shoot a whole thing. Hey, that’s what we’re asking for, to do extenuating circumstances come up with it all possible, know that if for some reason you had to leave, that was not a right fit for whatever reason. Now, it’s also tough because you can do that during your first week, two weeks, you know, so now you take the idea. No, I think

Jay Ruane 19:31

You say is after a year you’re entitled to, uh, you know, you’re entitled, if for any reason, we let you go, you’re entitled to four weeks of severance. And, you know, we asked for weeks.

Seth Price 19:41

Okay, so what happens after two weeks if you let somebody go?

Jay Ruane 19:45

Well, I mean, they’re still on probation. I mean, by the way, 90 days.

Seth Price 19:48

One sense. Does it even make sense to say it then? Or is it something when you do the annual review saying, Hey, you’re no longer a short time or you’re part of our team? We’re committing to you. If you Whoever leave, there’s going to be this much severance minimum. If you if we have to ask you to leave, if you leave on your own volition, we asked you at this point, because the truth is, if you’re lying to the people in the two weeks, they’re cycling from firm to firm, they’re watching the TIC TOCs. They don’t give a shit. They’re just laughing at you versus the person who’s been with you. So

Jay Ruane 20:20

I really liked that. So that’s a great topic for your to talk about it, you know, at your first annual review, hey, you’re part of this team. Now, we’re going to ask you, we’re going to commit to you that if you know markets change, and we haven’t let you go, you’re guaranteed at least a base of four weeks average or maybe more.

Seth Price 20:36

Basically, we’re using that one year points in order to delineate and look, it could be at any point, but I feel like that those, sadly, the Tiktok people are pushing, what is the world that we don’t want to be in? What you want is your beyond probation, we’ve told you, you’re there. And that there’s four weeks because that’s the right thing to do. Now, some people with you know, 15 years, it’s a different story.

Jay Ruane 21:04

You’re gonna take me that long. But this leads me to my next question. So we’re in this hiring Blitz, we have hired five people since January one, we’ve got two more that we need to hire. Just, you know, we are just hiring left and right, it seems, how much? How much time after you found somebody who’s good, do you give them to transition to you say, Okay, we’re hiring you. But you don’t have to report for a month if you need a month with your existing employer?

Seth Price 21:30

I mean, I think that’s that’s that that’s the depends if you don’t have the answer. But you know, look, you want as soon as possible. But I was just interviewing an attorney today who’s like she’s been in a place 10 years for her to if she had not come back and asked for she asked for three and a half forland zoospores, the numbers she was trying to the truth is, this lady if she doesn’t give for she’s doing a disservice. And just like, you know, when you were back in the dating world, if you were to somebody breaks up with somebody to go out with you. So pretty good chance, they may do the same thing on the other side. So how she’s treating this person is going to reflect on how they do it. If you pressure that person and they agree, I need you in a week. I don’t know what you do do some nights and weekends. That that’s not like you’re sort of forcing somebody into a bad position, the same time waiting for weeks. No is kills you, when you really need somebody in your filing make that decision? Yeah.

Jay Ruane 22:22

So let me ask you, you know, you guys are hiring as well. I’m seeing a increase in qualified people filing for some of our open jobs. You know, a year ago, we were having this conversation saying, We can’t find anybody. Nobody, you know, like we were, we were, I don’t wanna say scraping the bottom of the barrel. But we had trouble filling it. And now, you know, you post a job for an attorney or a hire, support staff, paralegal, that type of thing. You know, it’s not unusual for us to get 50 decent resumes in that we have to call through to find them.

Seth Price 22:55

I think you’re exactly right. I think we touched on it. When we needed to hire a recruiter, we saw the Amazon layoffs coming. And then we saw other layoffs. I think corporate America has changed the game similar. I’ll make an analogy. When big law stopped hiring people right out of law school, the numbers they were doing before summer classes shrunk. That when we saw that, and we had a moment where we could hire well, then people stopped going to law school in the same numbers. And it contracted again, because it was the trails, were the thing we’re seeing now is before we are you losing people to or what are the what’s the competition, not even losing. I mean, if we’re apply to you, you know, Capital One’s a big employer in our market, right? They pay well, they have a great campus in Richmond campus in Virginia, and they pay a number that is with benefits and herps. pretty aggressive in our market. Same with Amazon, Amazon pays numbers that nobody pays, you get a job at Amazon, they did like I forget what it was, but like a 50% of base bonus at the end of the year. Kraft could do that. Right. So making 100,000 You make a buck 50 It’s very hard to compete with that if our number was a buck 20 You know, right. And so when those jobs are not flying off the shelves, it gives you a fighting chance, at the level we’re at. We’re not as efficient as Bezos. You know. And so, if we’re not paying those numbers, that with the contraction, it gives you a better shot at given not that many people out there hiring right now. Just an old buddy of mine, his wife was laid off by her last place. She’s like a paralegal at a prestigious place making 80 and there aren’t that many $80,000 paralegal jobs, especially if you’re jumping to a new substantive area, right. You know, somebody came they were 20 years criminal. Maybe you pay 7580 And you’re maybe you wouldn’t, but if you have no experience, other than being a great person with great experience, but you have to be trained in to a sector, those jobs are hard to do. And I’m seeing more and more of that, that the look, you know, as we’ve, again, we’ve talked about this over the years, that I never want to be the person, somebody’s making 80, I don’t want to be the person saying markets paying 60, this is not going to work, it’s not going to end well. Right, right. And so if they’re unemployed for six months to a year, and they then had to recalibrated, fine, but you never want to be the bearer of that bad news.

Jay Ruane 25:27

Alright, so last topic of the day, I want to throw this by you, it’s still January. And one of the things that we are looking at now is, we really want to make an effort on the referral marketing side to touch our or reach out and have some sort of contact, like, not just an email, but like a check in with our high number of referral partners over the course of the year. And we have a target of, you know, a new touch every 12 weeks, so that we get four in ideally, you get four touches in over the course of a year. You know, we’ll settle for three, because sometimes life just gets in the way. And they’re busy as well. You know, they’ve got their practices or their businesses, whatever they are, are you guys doing anything special in terms of referral partners? Are you just all in on the digital marketing and and

Seth Price 26:17

I think it’s both. I have not systematized as well as you are a John Fisher, I have referrals to the Fast and Furious from going to conferences to me, part of my world is going to conferences, meeting people, they know us. They

Jay Ruane 26:30

Know, they know you’re the DC, Maryland, Virginia person

Seth Price 26:32

Where I have punted is there, you’ve been particularly good at which is the local lawyers, we have big law here. And if there’s an area that I wished that I’ve had more of a system for, it would be touches, one of the one of the guys in my space, who has a similarly sized firm to ours and started around the same time as ours, built his whole career. He does three, four or five lunches a week. And he he’s a dessert guy, he’s the one who brought you have a meal, you orders or not, because you want to use now a huge biker, but, you know, cyclists, but he, you know, that extra 15 minutes, it’s amazing at business lunches and dinners, what happens, I was just at a big dinner a few months ago, and I remember we had dinner was fine, it was quick food came quicker than it should have sat for dessert. That’s where the magic happened. So this guy basically made an art of that. Now, that’s a real commitment. You know, there are a lot of ways to do it. But I feel like, you know, part of what I think you and I have both done is genuine relationships with people is going to trump anything else. I’ve tried to use Facebook as one of those areas where all the people are, which is not everybody that has a way to really stay in touch, I think. And for me, I’m middle aged. So I use that there are other people that live on LinkedIn and love it. But you know, it’s a ping. But what I love about Facebook particularly is it’s other people’s families. And that means makes to me for a richer thing that rather than say, congrats on the promotion, or this or that, it’s when you have something and knowing how to go a step further, you know, Facebook Messenger, you know, with, you know, something to that person, you know, every emails are lost, you know, texts are getting busy, the one place where you anything you get is pretty much personal, is that. And so I think that is one of those great untapped areas, that if you use that as a way to stay in touch, you can really do some damage. I

Jay Ruane 28:36

Mean, I think the reality is, is that you got to stay in touch with these people. And just, you know, subscribing them to your mailing list isn’t necessarily enough, I think you need to have that sort of personal connection, because it’s the personal connection that got them to connect with you. And so I’ve been toying with this idea of actually creating, I’d have my first mailing list, but actually creating a personal mailing list so that I can update people as to what’s going on in my life.

Seth Price 29:03

I think it’s already Facebook, for the most part, it probably. And the fact is that if like one of the benefits that you and I had a post a crazy amount, but those posts, that’s amazing, even though you may not get the engagement, the number of people who stock passively.

Jay Ruane 29:25

Oh, I gotta tell you, I think you saw it a couple of weeks ago, two weeks ago, I took my son to the New York Symphony Orchestra. He’s you know, he’s playing the viola and he’s loving it and and so I said, You know what? Yeah, so me and my wife decided to take them into the city so he could see it. First of all, it was amazing experience. I mean, I must say that it was like we brought the average age of the audience down by at least double digits. Because it’s, it’s really just a bunch of old white people in there which is unfortunate right? You know it because the music was astounding, and I wish they had a better a wider variety of the audience. But as it was, I posted a picture, I got 120 likes, what if they got out of that one picture,

Seth Price 30:10

Look, things get paid, your things don’t get paid your kids do better than others dogs do. Great. That said, it’s not that 120, which is awesome. What I’m telling you is there’s another two or 300 that are seeing it and not engaging. It’s when I go to conferences, people who I haven’t talked to what I even I’m trying to think of examples. But when there was something big that happened to me, it was a professionally, I don’t know, it was the Wall Street Journal article, or something else, it was something happened and it was at a social event. Maybe it was the, the the inc 5000, something like that came up. And I’m at a social event. And it was amazing how many people were talking to me about it, who had not engaged or not anything else. So the power of social, especially in our world, 120 is great, and that you should poopoo it. But I think it’s much more powerful than that there are a bunch of people that aren’t doing what they’re saying it’s getting you into their noggin. So because you branded as the DUI attorney, now, make sure that they you know, as our memories slip, they don’t always I don’t always remember everybody’s names. You don’t remember everybody’s name. But if it’s there, and I see you that triggers that and it’s in and as one of my old met old mentor said, Who do like more like b2b networking for like white collar federal cases, because they always want to be co counsels on cases that are bigger that whoever you’ve spoken to in the last two weeks, and who you do business with, I think the great thing about social is it can, it can basically make you present even when you’re not running around and doing stuff.

Jay Ruane 31:43

Like, well, there’s a lot of stuff that we talked about today, we ran a whole gamut of stuff from beginning to end. So thank you for being with us, folks. As always, if you want to take us on the go, you can catch us, wherever you get your podcasts by searching up the law firm blueprint podcast sponsored, I guess by blue shark digital, it’s you got the blue, you might as well use it right. You know, go go for the for the branding there. And of course, you can catch us live in the Facebook group, the law firm, blueprint Facebook group, every week as we put these shows up there as well. We’ve got a bunch of stuff in store. I’m going to be traveling to a conference, I don’t really get out much, but I’m going out to Vegas in a couple of weeks for an NACDL conference. And so we’ll see how that goes. I’m going to check out that show absent that I went to you with your birthday. That was that was years ago. And now spots by

Seth Price 32:33

The way, they now have the version of it in AC. Oh, no way. Yeah. Oh, I

Jay Ruane 32:40

I have to check that out. Maybe I’ll make my way down to the AC sometime this summer.

Seth Price 32:44

Live lawfirm blueprint from Atlantic City. Oh, that’d

Jay Ruane 32:47

be cool. That’d be a lot of fun. We can meet up with our old friend, Bill Carlo Reuleaux who’s doing all this stuff. Now the Eagles are out so he’s got he’s got some time on his hands. So

Seth Price 32:57

I was gonna say History is written by the Victor had they stayed the course of their you know, the beginning of the season. This guy be a national name. And Oh, absolutely.

Jay Ruane 33:08

I mean, but you know, as a Giants fan, you can’t help but Glee at the wide right again this weekend for them. It

Seth Price 33:14

was it was crazy. I feel bad for I take Lee. I was like, Oh, my daughter 10 year old is a huge Taylor fan at this point doesn’t know anything about football, but Taylor’s boyfriend plays for them. And every time she came on the screen, she screamed, and she watched the game with me.

Jay Ruane 33:29

Oh, that’s cool. That’s cool. All right, folks, that’s gonna do it for us. As always take a second to go. Be sure to give us a five star rating on the podcast player of your choice. Catch us in the law firm Facebook group. If you’re not a member, please join us in the group. And we’ll be talking to you soon. We’ll see you next week. Bye for now.

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