On this edition of The Law Firm Blueprint, Seth Price and Jay Ruane discuss Ruane Attorney’s potential search for new intake software. The pair discuss when new software might be the right move and expand the discussion for other firms looking to experiment with new tools.
Jay leads the conversation with his own personal experiences. His firm has a software that works well, but with the amount of new leads his firm is seeing, he is curious to find if there is anything new out there that could benefit his firm. Seth and Jay touch on Clio, SmartAdvocate, and Filevine, debating between the mindset of “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it,” versus continuing to innovate and grow in the ways your firm uses softwares. Plus, they hash out why it is important to ensure that the vendors working with your firm are also trying to innovate and grow as time goes on. This way, as your firm grows and scales, so do the partners you are working with, creating a synergy and a shared goal towards innovation.
Check out the podcast on The Law Firm Blueprint Facebook group or stream it wherever you get your podcasts!
#software #lawfirmgrowth #vendors
Hello, hello and welcome to this edition of The Law Firm Blueprint. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane. And with me, as always, is my guy Seth Price down there in DC, Maryland and Virginia, Seth, you know, this week we had a big storm here on the East Coast. Did you get snow down there? Or did you get rain?
We woke up to nothing, despite a two hour school delay, and then there was like flakes for a bit. I think up county, it was pretty bad. And we live in a very large county, its about 45 minutes to drive to the other end of the county that said, I, when I’m in charge, there’ll be two zones, zone A and zone B, Zone A gets a lot of snow. Zone B doesn’t, and has underground, has a lot of the wires are underground, etc. And the idea that we can’t close schools differently for different sides of the county blows my mind.
Well, I mean, they called off our schools the day before.
No understood when you have something major. What I’m saying right now is it wasn’t, there was not enough to delay the schools where I live, but somewhere in the county it was and they don’t make a distinction.
Yeah, that’s that was like the high school that I went to we drew people from two different counties to go to my high school. So if there was snow anywhere, we got the day off. So it was kind of nice. I liked that as a kid. You know, it’s just, those are the fond memories. Because right now, you know, with this week, everybody in my office just worked from home they had to, and that brings me up to the topic that I want to talk about with the show this week is that everybody in my office, you know, they have laptops, they have phones at home, they have VoIP service, or they have a soft phone on their laptop, they can do what needs to be done, right. And we’ve had this vendor for 15 years pre COVID. I mean, we were we were set up pre COVID. This is this is all good stuff. Right. But the question I have, and the thing that I want to talk about is, at what point is it time to move on from a vendor? Maybe they’re doing everything, right? But you just say, hey, you know what I wanted? Like, like, for example, and this is something that maybe you could talk to you on, from the BluShark side, but also from the Price Benowitz side. You know, there are people who I am sure, in a, in a marketing world have outsourced to to BluShark and then said, you know what we’ve grown, we’ve scaled. Now we want to manage things internally, and we want to do some things internally, we’re bringing our content writers in and that type of thing. Same thing for me, like I’ve got a working phone system, it works internationally, everybody seems to be, but should I be looking at moving up moving maybe an upgrade? You know, so maybe it’s a tech upgrade? Maybe it’s hey, you know, I’ve got a local answering service. I gotta go with a product like Capture Now, right? Because they can provide something that the local answering service whose one person or maybe one and a half people working out of their local house, they’ve been answering phones for years, can’t handle any more, given the volume of calls that we have coming in? You know, so these are the questions that I think people have as they, as they grow. And it’s nothing personal against the vendor necessarily. It’s just you’re going into, in a particular direction, and your time with them is done. What are your thoughts on that.
Right, so look, a lot, because you know, gazillion vendors at Price Benowitz that we work with as, BluShark, I see it from the other sites, I see all sorts of stuff. And I think marketing is slightly different than technology, but different, but analogous. So let’s start unpacking this. I went through what you’re doing with the phone system not that long ago, I don’t know if we had, I think we may even have at one point had the same group. I think it was a David Hanel office when I had a dozen people. And we picked some phone system and have stayed with it for a very long time. Now, there’s a couple truisms, right, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. You’ve heard that before. There’s only so many of these changes, you could make it once where you may want to upgrade stuff, but your bandwidth and depending on how much of an ops team you have, or technology team, do you really want to have multiple things moving at the same time. Second question, right. Third is price. Like there may be more But are you willing to pay that upgrade? Right. And this is the piece, this the ironic piece because I see it from the BluShark side, there are times when I started, we would get clients from people who were legendary, charge nothing. And in the marketing world, people stayed with them at that nothing rate for a very long time. And at some point, they wanted to spend more. And the question is, do you go back to your existing vendors? What can you do for a larger budget, which is, nobody does? Very few people do, versus Do you just shop it to the world and say, Well, this is my low dollar person. I’ll spend more somewhere else now. And I see a lot of that. But let’s just, to take your piece. We literally went through this and I’ll tell one old story, which I think would be illustrative to this crowd which was, so we’re old enough that there was so software that wasn’t sold on a per seat license back in the day. I went, I think with you to a DUI conference in Vegas, and our first software, pre Clio for our non PI, was something called the Defender Data. And it was $60 a month, and we had 12 licenses. And it was very basic, but it did the job for a criminal practice. And one day, we, they looked at us and we had 60 licenses. And they’re like, well, you know, we’re going to have to raise your rate, they call me. What’s, he’s like, you’re going from like, I think we went from like, $60 a month to $80 a month. I can do that. So that was a good one, right? At some point we had, and again, very analogous to what you’re doing with the phone system. We’re like, look, it gets us through the day, but it’s not the right answer for growth. And we moved our non PI to Clio. And that was $60 ahead. massive difference. Was it the right move? It took us probably, if I’m being honest, two or three years before, we started using the functionality to the point where I could justify the expense. But it was the right thing to do, phone system, we started out with a David Hanel referral, I built and grew, it got to the point, especially with international that wasn’t really untenable. But this is what we did, we went back to the person we were using, and said, what else is there? And actually there was, you know, there, you could go, you’d mentioned there’s Zoom, there’s other groups that are doing it, there was one group that was on a legitimate list, that was a direct technology swap with our current provider where we didn’t have to re-upload everything. It was just moving to a new platform, it was new hardware, mind you. But it wasn’t-
Hardware can get expensive when you got that many desks.
Correct. But ironically, it’s now less expensive. A) techno- the hardware, slightly less, but with the soft apps, you know, that go on the computers, so many of our people don’t even have the hardware now. Old people like us want the hardware, so two things, the hardware became less expensive, third parties work. So the biggest issue was the, would, would have been and you see this with, with, with software, you know, people moving from something to a FileVine or SmartAdvocate, that, that, that transition is so expensive, that if there’s an opportunity to build and grow within that group, that has to have a slight advantage over, the again, it to me that, if I could make a jump, assuming that it was very, very close to what I’d want, that the idea that I don’t need to do a full rebuild is, is a nice luxury.
Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things is, is that a lot of us in this, in this industry, you know, we can get, I guess, tempted by the shiny object of technology, or vendor, you know, you meet somebody at a conference, and you’re like, oh, this person is going to solve all my problems, or this technology that solves all my problems. And you could, you know, you could hope that that happens, but the reality is, is that there’s never going to be a perfect vendor or perfect piece of technology. It’s the question of how much are using, and that’s a conversation that we’re going to have on our leadership team is, you know, our phones, you know, are working, there, you know, everybody you know, we’re good.
Well so let me ask you what do you want that you don’t have? That’s, that’s the question, what would, what could you get from another system?
So I think from another system that would allow us to deploy certain things in house that right now, we have to email our rep and say, hey, you need to change the, you know, the ring pattern, or you need to,
And how much of an obstacle is that for you?
It’s sending an email.
Right, but meaning so essentially,
Right.
I mean, that’s, that’s not one of the- so for us, we were, we were going beyond the limitations of you know, when you go over 100 seats, things change. And it was we, I think the group we had was good to 99. And we were pushing against it. So I think that to a certain extent, the piece that if coming from a world of it ain’t broke, don’t fix it, going back to existing vendors, see what your options are. We built and grew with the old phone system we had, and that we are with a new one, but it was one that was on a similar platform. Look, I’m headed to a tech show right after we finish this. And I have people, we see them at masterminds and conferences, it’s usually smaller guys. And they switched their software, I see it outside the PI space in particular, where they’re going from, you know, one to another to another every year, because one doesn’t do this and one doesn’t do that. And after I think that look, you’ve been with a company 15 years. God bless, go shop and see what functionality there is that you could upgrade to, right is it worth it? Great. But there, the flip side is I see a lot of people the biggest mistake I see smaller people doing, saying that I was with my case. I went to Clio, didn’t love Clio now and with Practice Panther, but MyCase is doing something cool. And I’m like, none of it’s going to solve all your problems, right? They all, they all are good or bad, Clio which I love, right? I mean I don’t wanna say love, I don’t want to overstate it. For eight years, they told me there was an integration with QuickBooks that didn’t exist. I mean, I don’t know if it was eight years, but for many, many years, finally, so there is not a panacea, that we are at a point where we all create our own processes and systems that none of these soft, none of these softwares are going to do everything. And the phone system, you’re gonna find, let’s say, you went to Zoom, you’re gonna find out, oh, they can do this, but they can’t do that. Right. And it’s sort of like, we’re going back to your shiny object, making sure that you’re making the decision for a purposeful reason like the act, and is the juice worth the squeeze?
Right. And that’s, and that’s reason why I wanted to talk about this today, because I feel a lot of people in the legal space, you know, they are, I guess it’s your, as a lawyer, somebody who should be, who is trained to think about all of the different permutations and variations in case law and thinking through things strategically, when you’re writing a brief and all your training. It’s like they get in front of people, and they get sold a bill of goods very quickly. And really, what we want to do is encourage people to say, figure out what you actually need. And, and go there. I mean, for me, you know, it’s interesting. Everybody loves FileVine. I know you use it.
No, I mean, I like it. but I don’t use it.
Oh, I thought you guys used it in one of your, in one of your divisions?
No, we’re Smart- we’re SmartAdvocate-
Oh SmartAdvocate.
But that said, many, many of our friends and colleagues, it’s, it’s a great piece of software.
It is, I’ve seen it, I- you know, I’ve, I’ve used it. For years, I was like, maybe I need to move to FileVine, maybe I need to move to FileVine. And I have been building our own software, which is another headache. You know, since I, you know, since I started because Clio, FileVine, SmartAdvocate, none of these things existed when I started my practice, and started, you know, having multiple offices. So we had a server, and it was server based. And we were build-, you know, and it was, it was a lot and we had redundant backups. I mean, it was, my, my tech stack years ago was very aggressively innovative, but it also was limited by what was out there. But you know, we went to the cloud before other people had done that. But we’ve kept it all in house. And one of the one of the people on my leadership team said, you know, we, brought it to me, said we should, we owe it to ourselves to look into what it would be to take us to go to SmartAdvocate or FileVine and customize. And I said, look, look at what we’re spending every year on upgrades to our system that we know and love. And yes it’s not perfect, but we can have it do everything we want. Automated text messaging, emails, file generation, document generation, tons of stuff, right? And if you look at the per-seat cost, that it would cost us to move to something like FileVine, we’d be paying triple what we pay now in development costs. Right? You know what I mean? And is it worth it at that point?
And, look we’ve talked about this in prior know, I know Umansky was part of this conversation back in the day, I’m a big fan of being out of the software business, unless you’re gonna take it, it’s a passion, you want to turn it and become that next software. Great. But if this is just your hobby, look, I also am a big fan of not being, I order off menu all the time. I-
I know I’ve been at restaurants with you.
Right? I will, I’m speaking to some of my sort of coaching groups where I want to have a path of my own choosing that doesn’t fit somebody else’s program. I’m that guy. So I get it. That said, if you are a criminal practice, and you’re about to pay for and go through the headaches of taking a a PI centric piece of software and adopting it to your world if you say hey, here is the build out for somebody who’s doing what I’m doing, great but for you to reinvent the wheel, that to me is the scariest thing, I- could it be done, absolutely. But if the answer is that every other criminal guy is on a, is on a smoke ball Practice Panther, Clio or MyCase why take something more complicated, more expensive and bring that down for what you’re doing? Is it more custom- maybe, but like, what do you really need it for? And that is sort of, that’s why despite it being a pain in the ass, I never look, I also did it before there was anything even close, now Clio is trying PI and and FileVine is trying criminal and other things like that. But the idea is, I want somebody whose main, It’s hard enough when it’s their main focus. God forbid. I mean, look, I can speak to the SmartAdvocate people can they, would they sell you a criminal, for criminal absolut- Does it make any sense? I don’t think so. I mean, it’s like don’t reinvent the wheel, find out where it is. That’s why when I see this, and I think that one of the smartest things that FileVine did was having the integrator team that was outside like Salesforce. I just wish there was more practice in a box where like, Salesforce doesn’t have that. Where, where you can go and say, hey, I’m a criminal defense firm. Can you give me the basic setup? No, we’re pains in the ass. We’re going to change it. But at least you’re starting with something that that is industry standard rather than-
I don’t need a tag for statute of limitations on a, you know, on a criminal defense practice software.
No, but right. But the idea is, but you don’t do no, you need to have like the hardest thing that we, I remember back in the day that nobody had was payment plans. That was the hardest thing for 10 years, probably why you built it yourself. Nobody could handle payment plans, it was like, you would think we’re trying to go to Mars. Nobody until recently that this is at least you know, could do true QuickBooks integration. Like I remember, Clio didn’t have it in [inaudible], there was a big exam-. And it was, turned out that if you had one user, it worked. But the moment there was a second user, it would create duplicate data. Not a good thing. And, and so also, part of it is you hear a lot of truisms, and that’s why this bouncing, I think, is the one thing, there are times and then this isn’t to say, hey, the Jay Ruane thing of betting on like your own tech stack, but the idea of like, yeah, your software may not be as good. Now, if it’s something where your software doesn’t have plaintiffs, the ability to do a plaintiff’s case doesn’t have that in there. And you have to, you know, jimmy rig it, at some point, you want to make a move. But I think that’s also why Clio is, like did something very smart. I’m friends with Jack Newton. And we’ve talked about it over time. He’s the founder there, which is they have forced you to leave Clio historically. Is there, right now, is there is their PI integration, or their PI modular, as good as the ones that are standalone for that? No, but like, it’ll get there. And if you look at like a friend of the show, like an Andy Gross, who had like a piece of it, it would allow people to stay with them much, much longer, and maybe eventually, forever, if they could figure that piece out. It’s just interesting. So I think that there’s a certain amount of it’s awesome to push the envelope, it’s awesome to see what else is out there. I think that checking with existing vendors, because I’ll give you one, another example. We use JazzHR as our HR, you know, for recruiting, we have all the resumes, but we had a good relationship with them and spend a few hundred dollars a month it’s not crazy. We would love to, we, my new, we have this new, amazing recruiter, she has been with us, you know, long enough, I could say the six month Jay rule, that like she’s, she’s in there. And she comes and say, this is really slow, it’s really hurting my ability to do my job, we should really look at these others. And it turned out that there’s another like to the Toyota, there’s a Lexus owned by the same company. That’s a much more advanced, and we look at it and it was like, f-you expensive. It turned out, we just needed to buy more storage within Jazz. And now all of the sudden, it’s running fine. So asking questions that, imagine if I was going to like, totally move that piece of my tech stack. That would be a huge-
Right, like, like you need to. I feel like some people react reflexively rather than logically. And they just say, okay, well, it’s time to get a new one. And they just jump. Maybe they were sold a bill of goods at a trade show. Maybe they, maybe they met somebody who they were charmed by. But maybe, maybe they just aren’t putting the time of care and attention into those decisions that they would do for things like their clients and your law firm is a client of yours as the CEO and you should be making these informed decisions.
Isn’t it similar to an employee to a certain extent, I mean, I remember when I was, before I had my law firm, I was working in the tech space and a buddy of mine would hire people to talk about his new hires. Like, you’ll be, like your your love interest, they can do this, they can do that. And that’s going to solve all my problems. You realize they’re human beings, they have strengths, they have weaknesses. And I think it’s not unlike here. And there are times where an existing person with the right training and development could do a really good job. And there are times when we’re like, what, what can we do from the outside rather than investing in our current people? And or just, you know, we talked, talking about using, you know, looking at vendors as partners, something we talk a lot about which is, have are you do you have enough of a relationship with them where you’re, not just with the rep that’s getting you through the day, but do you know the person a couple levels up that knows what’s possible? Because like most things like most of the softwares we’re using, there’s so much power beyond what we’re actually using it for. And, and this is, a lot of times you get to the point where there’s something your software can’t do. I can’t tell you for how many years, I had people before I even had, overseas, cutting and pasting information, because there wasn’t a perfect integration. And am I? Am I smart for like, not bouncing software, would I have been better without? I don’t know. But it is, I think that it’s not, the drug that that new software is going to change and rock your world is, can be enticing. There are times when it’s right. I’ve seen law firms that move to a solidify FileVine, SmartAdvocate that’s changed their entire practice and was the right move. But the bouncing between them, to me is a red flag that you got to be careful that like, it’s sort of like relationships that like no one person is going to hit everything. And that the question is, can you live with the shortcomings?
Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s really it’s, and that leads me to, you know, the second part of the conversation is, at what point do you say to yourself, I’m reevaluating the people that I’m doing business with? Is that your cleaning people? Is it your? Is it your landlord? Is it your, you know, is in BluShark purposes? Is it your SEO team? Is it you know, because everybody has a skill set, right? And everybody provides, maybe I need to have, you know, I’m very happy with my bookkeeper. But maybe I need to move on. Because, you know, at, at closing in on, you know, eight figure revenue. Maybe my bookkeeping team needs to be upgraded. May, you know what I mean? Like, these are the conversations that that that people need to be considering, I think as you are growing and scaling, and it’s not something that I necessarily want to do. But I owe it to the business to get better at each each component of it. Right?
Well, I would say there are some that are more glaring than others, I looked back in the history of my firm administrators. And it was it was pretty ugly till I found a decent guy, the, the guy has been with me for years, who’s legendary and fell off the motorcycle. You know, he’s a guy who, you know, before that it was a bunch of buffoons that each had some strengths and got me to where I needed to be. But I think there’s also a question of, are you paying enough for some of those areas? True at the marketing side. Right? If you’re paying your SEO vendor, you know, $4,000 a month and all your competitors have $20,000, or $15,000 worth of resources? Is it? Is it the budget? Or is it, is it the vendor. And that’s also true with the software, right? If you have software that is $80 for your entire firm per month, it may be that it’s not the same technology as somebody who’s investing every month and doing that. And same with the bookkeeper. Like, if you have a bookkeeper that’s making $70,000 a year, nothing wrong with that number. But that if you want somebody who has junior controller elements in them, that’s going to be closer to 80 or 100. And if you want, you know, mid level controller, it’s going to be a buck 25. And, you know, and so that, to a certain extent, occasionally you get somebody who’s undervalued for whatever reason, but that very often the question there, and it goes exactly to your question, which is, are you layering, are you budgeting what’s needed to get it done? And I see that over and over again.
And my point is, how do you know that, what resources are out there to tell us, hey, if you’re at, once you cross, you know, $5 million worth of rev, of revenue. For your firm, once you cross $10 million, you should be looking for a you know, a controller type, controller type, that’s a buck 50 a year because that, you know, with those types of revenues, once you are at, you know, seven and a half million dollars worth of revenue, you should have XY and Z, and they generally cost them out about this much. Because-
You know, and one thing I’ll tell you, again-
What’s out there to tell us those answers to those questions other than trial and error? And we’re trying to make it so that people don’t make the same errors that other people make by being public about this stuff.
I would say, and I’m not telling you that I did this but remember way back in the day, we looked at our percentage of accounting fees, of internal accounting fees, for the, from the firm’s point of view, like meaning as a percentage of revenue. And it was very, very lim- same with marketing. You know, if you, if you’re sitting there and you’re like okay, I, you, are you in growth mode, sustain mode? What and actually looking at what are you spending as a percentage of revenue. That is one of the, one of those areas that you could look at to give you a heads up as to should you be investing more in something if you’re under spending there, now, if it ain’t broke, and you have that bookkeeper, and you don’t see any major issues, and your CPA is good with everything great,
Just keep rolling.
Right. But let’s say you want to start forecasting, and that current person can’t do that. Then one of the great things, and I think that the industry has developed, and I don’t, not that I have amazing rep people for each of these, but that’s where fractional people can be great, because, you know, a real CFO, is $250 to $300,000 a year, and most of us don’t want to spend that. And so the question is, can you find somebody? And I guess the frustrating piece that I have seen, is that there are business models within business models, and then you have to be a student as to what are you getting for what? And are you getting? And this is no different for SEO as it is for fractional CFOs. Are you getting that person? Or are you getting the team below them? And if you know, if that team, if the team below them is crushing it great, and that person is directing it. That’s the dream. But that’s another layer to this when you’re evaluating. And when you’re figuring these pieces out. That, you know, when you look at people that you’re working with. And look, softwares, you know, imagine if you were with, I was back in the day with, you know, you had Needles and you had Trialworks, right, and then they merged. And then Trialworks, just, you know, I never went to Needles, because they never improved it. Even though my, my, my mentors,
I think they just went to the cloud recently,
Right. But my mentors made bank on needles, because back in the day, when PI was easier, they just crushed it, they loved it. And then they they merged, and then they didn’t do anything with Trialwor- And then they had to be merged again. And so there are times when I think you want to look at the company itself and say, is the company itself stable? Is it investing in innovation? Is this somebody who’s going to be able to get me there? And that’s, again, I think the benefit of cloud software, even though it’s expensive as shit, is that in theory, you’re not waiting for that annual update, you remember that? Where like, you’d have to pay for an annual update to your software, it was much more cost effective. But it wasn’t in real time. And the incentives weren’t as great to keep it up to date.
Gotcha. I mean, the reality is, is that it’s just, you know, these are, the challenge, I guess, is, these are the problems of every business owner. And it’s, it’s like your business is living, breathing. And you never know, if you’re really in growth mode or sustain mode until you actually see what the results are. Or, you know, I entered 2024, thinking that I was going to be in sustained mode, and we tweaked some of our paid stuff, our pay per click, and our LSAS. And, you know, the, you know, we’re six, only six weeks into the year, but we’re seeing, you know, 37% growth January over January. And so it’s one of the things that I went in thinking I was in sustain mode, and now I’m really in growth mode. And so now I have to reevaluate, is this something I want to continue all year? And if I do, what sort of resources do I need to do? I had to juggle some of my, my staff to make sure that we have the right people on intake, because the calls are coming in.
Right, because to me, that’s why I love investing in intake, because in theory, you could invest in intake, and sell differently, like meaning raise prices, and change your rubric and not really grow headcount wise.
But grow revenue wise.
And in, you know, just keep it with, because the with every, look 44 lawyers, I just had a lawyer, we, you know, who had a meltdown, you know, and it just it again, it’s not like, it’s the, it’s not the sky is falling, but it’s like, as, with every layer of growth, there’s additional potential room for headaches.
Yeah, I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s one of these things that, you know, a couple of weeks ago, you know, end of the year, I was like, okay, I’m in a good space. I fixed my problems of last year, and let’s just, let’s just coast, you know, we’re happy where we’re at, we’re, you know, we’re happy with our numbers. And, you know, I’m getting frantic calls from my sales person saying, qe can’t keep up with all of these leads. And every time we quote, higher people pay us. I mean, it’s a good problem to have knock on wood.
But I think that’s one of the only ways you can get there. Because if they didn’t have that excess leads, they wouldn’t be, they would not have the wherewithal, they wouldn’t do it.
Yeah.
So, this is awesome. I really enjoyed this, and I can’t wait for tech show. I’ll come back with all sorts of whatever’s new and breaking there. I did, this is one I don’t go for business development. I really just go to sort of geek out and-
See what’s there.
Yeah, and connect with the other people who are doing those things. Who normally are off, you know, you know, you people that you can’t normally get real Face Time with normally.
Yeah, I’m sure there’s gonna be a ton of AI products.
Right. And to me, it’s always sifting between what is AI, that’s, you know, cool, is the shiny object saying it’s AI, versus, which is the ones that are actually moving the needle with it. I mean, so much out there where people are saying it’s AI, but there’s really a bunch of guys in India doing the work, right. Nobody wants to pay for that. But they’ll pay for AI, you know, so it’s just fascinating to see those things. Those things start to, to roll out what what’s real and what’s, and like anything else. I mean, I’ve always been, I never want to buy a software in its first year. You know, it would be great to have that stuff. And I know it’s coming. And I’m not running away from it. But I also want to make sure that we get the stuff that’s legit and not, you know, half baked.
Right, you don’t want to bet on a platform that just breaks down in 18 months. And you know, you’ve you’ve lost time and money. So it’s one of these things that you kind of have to you have to be, you have to be cautious before just jumping into something for sure.
Absolutely. Let’s, let’s, let’s wrap this up. And land the plane as they say.
Well, folks, this is going to be a great, great episode. If you want to just think about you know where you are going intentionally. Of course, if you want to take us on the go, you can do it anytime by subscribing to The Law Firm Blueprint podcast and take your shows on the go. Of course, you can also join our Facebook group, which is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, wherever you get Facebook. You can join the group and follow along on this show every week as we go live, broadcasting that, but that’s gonna do it for me. I’m Jay Ruane. He is Seth Price. We are The Law Firm Blueprint . Thanks so much for being with us. Bye for now.
Subcribe to our newletter to receive news on update
