In this episode of The Law Firm Blueprint, hosts Jay Ruane and Seth Price dive into a deep conversation with RJon Robins, a renowned expert in law firm operations and intake strategies. RJon has been a trailblazer in advocating for the use of non-attorney salespeople in law firms, challenging conventional norms and providing a fresh perspective on how law firms can improve their intake processes and profitability. The conversation delves into what makes an effective non-attorney salesperson, highlighting key traits like empathy, organization, and a genuine interest in helping clients. RJon explains how to structure the compensation of these roles to ensure profitability for the law firm, satisfaction for clients, and motivation for the salesperson. He also outlines a step-by-step training process for salespeople, starting with raising dead leads, and transitioning to structured, client-focused follow-up practices. RJon shares his extensive experience traveling across the country, speaking with thousands of lawyers, and facing resistance to the idea of non-attorney sales roles. He discusses the differences between the practice of law and the business of law, emphasizing that while the practice requires a licensed attorney, the business side, including intake and client acquisition, can benefit from skilled non-attorney salespeople.
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Hello, hello, and welcome to this edition of the Law Firm Blueprint. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane, founder of The Criminal Mastermind, and with me, as always, is my man Seth Price down there in the BluShark and Price-Benowitz headquarters. However, we are joined today by none other than an absolute legend in the area of intake and law firm operations, our man, RJon Robins. RJon, thank you so much for being with us today.
Thank you. And I appreciate being back on the show. I don’t get invited back to a lot of places, so whenever I get invited back someplace, I’m particularly appreciative.
That is awesome. So RJon, we’re doing a series on intake, and it struck me that you have been advocating for the non-attorney salesperson longer than anybody else in the space. I’m sure you’ve taken your barbs for it, but it is something that I feel people are taking a second look at today. And just wanted to get your thoughts on this, on the concept of this, and where you’ve seen that evolve, and where we are today, as far as law firms being able to leverage somebody, not an attorney, to be able to sign cases.
Right. So, you know, I went around the country in 2010, 11′, 12′, and 13′. I spent more nights on the road during those four years than I spent at home on the national CLE speaking tour. And I went around the country, and I spoke with thousands and thousands and thousands of lawyers on the national CLE speaking tour, and that was even after I had already worked with thousands and thousands of law firms at the Florida Bar Lomas program, and I got so much pushback on this idea. I mean, like violent opposition, maybe not violent, but certainly not nice. Got really bad opposition. People said some really bad things about me, and they would cite non-existent bar rules. “Well, that’s a violation of bar rules. That’s a violation of bar rules in Oklahoma, that’s a violation of bar rules in Colorado, that’s a violation of bar rules in Arizona, that’s a violation of bar rules in Utah.” And wherever I went, there were these bar rules. And so I put out a bounty, and I’ll issue this bounty once again now. And the bounty is $10,000 to anyone, to the first person, $10,000 to the first person who can bring me a bar rule of any state in the country that says you have to be a licensed attorney to sell legal services. I’ve been taunting my critics with this for a decade. And you’d think that if anyone could find a bar rule that said you had to be a lawyer or licensed attorney to sell legal services, you think they would love to take my $10,000 and shove it in my face, right? Because people love shoving shit in my face. I guess I just have that kind of a face, right? But no one can do it, because there is a difference between the practice of law, which we have to be licensed to perform, versus the business of law, which you don’t have to be a lawyer to engage in the business of law, and you certainly don’t have to be a lawyer to sell legal services. So that’s a long answer to your question.
Somebody wants to do it. What, like, what are the pieces that you need in that person? How do you go about it?
Oh, okay, I misunderstood. I’m sorry. Listen, I’ve been, I’ve been teaching this for a decade, right? No one’s taught more non-attorney salespeople how to sell legal services than me. So, so there’s a few parts of it that I suspect your audience is going to go through. The first part is, is this possible? Check. Is this ethical? Is this professional? Does it violate any bar rules? Check. Does it economically make sense? That’s the conversation I was about to have. To show you why it makes the law firm so much more profitable. But now what you’re asking me is what to look for in a non-attorney salesperson-
And what are some of the, you know, hurdles or pitfalls people fall into as they’re trying to do this, okay?
Got it. So, hurdle number one, problem number one is, and this is why lawyers shouldn’t be in the role themselves, right? Because they don’t teach us anything in law school about how to sell legal services, right? And there are no CLE courses. I’ve never seen a single CLE course on how to sell legal services.
In fact, they probably wouldn’t give CLE credit if somebody proposed it.
They should, because it’s very ethical, very professional, but they don’t.
Understood, I understand, but meaning marketing, there are certain things they will not give credit for.
So, there’s very little resources to teach lawyers how to sell legal services, and most lawyers learn how to sell legal services from other lawyers who don’t know how to sell legal services, who learn how to sell legal services from other lawyers who don’t know how to sell legal services. And down it goes. Right? So, number one is, learn how to sell legal services yourself first. Right? You know that scene in The Matrix where Neo at the end, like everything starts kind of happening in slow motion, and the bad guys are like punching him, and he’s kind of like moving out of the way, because it’s all happening in slow motion? Remember that? When you get to a point where you can deconstruct your sales meetings, your meetings, your consultations with prospective clients, when you can deconstruct the whole thing, see it happening in slow motion, in real time, and explain to yourself why you made the sales you made and why you didn’t make the sales you didn’t make without blaming the client or the prospect, then you’re in a really good position to hire a non-attorney salesperson, because then you know what you’re looking for, and you know how to train them, and you know how to manage them, and you know how to call them on their BS when they come back and say, the leads are weak, right? So step one is learn how to sell legal services yourself in a systematic, professional, ethical way, which, by the way, you. We generate millions of dollars of revenue in how to manage a small law firm, selling all kinds of courses and programs on how to do that. But I will share some resources with you to put in the show notes for your listeners for free, just because of our relationship. And I want to, you know, life gives to the giver, right? I’ll share some free stuff on how to do it all right. First, learn how to do it yourself. Second, engineer the role to be profitable for the law firm and engineer the role to be profitable for the client and engineer the role to be profitable for the person you’re going to hire. I see lots of lawyers who have the best intentions, lots of law firm owners who have really good intentions, but they skip this critical step of engineering the role to be profitable. This has to do with the financials, right? So what is your cost? And you deal with this in BluShark all the time Seth, I know, right? Your question, you’re always asking people, What is your gross profit on a case, right? What is your target cost of acquisition? So let’s just say, for argument’s sake, that someone’s target acquisition, cost of acquisition is, I don’t know, throw out a number that we can use as an example that you see at BluShark always.
Let’s use an easy number, $1,000.
$1,000 great. So some portion of that $1,000 cost of acquisition is for the cost of the non-attorney salesperson. Now I just have to say one thing to the lawyers who are listening to this and thinking, I don’t want to pay the non-attorney salesperson. I’ll do it myself. It costs you more to do it yourself than to pay the non-attorney salesperson.
It’s also not scalable.
It’s not scalable. And you got to think about the opportunity cost, because you can generate $250 or $300 an hour, you’re effectively paying someone $500,000 a year to do the job of a non-attorney, salesperson, which is stupid, right? All right, so engineer the role to be profitable for the firm. Engineer the role to be profitable for the client. And let’s talk about why it’s profitable for the clients. Profitable for the client, because every dollar that you have to spend to acquire a client is $1 that the client has to pay you in fees. Right? If you can reduce your cost of acquisition, you can give the client more value. So this is profitable for the client as well. Okay, and then, of course, you got to make sure they engineer the position to be profitable for the person who’s doing the job. And that’s going to involve a base salary, obviously, you want that to be relatively low, and you want some performance-based compensation. Now here’s we gotta talk about bar rules for a minute. Okay? Bar rules do not allow us to pay non-attorneys a commission-
Essentially something tied to the value of the case-
Correct. And many states, bar rules do not allow you to pay a commission, even based on the sale. In many states, bar rules do in every state, but in every state, bar rules prohibit us from paying a non-attorney based on the, based on the value of the case, yes, and in many bar and in many states, bar rules prevent us from paying a commission based on whether you made the sale or didn’t make the sale, irrespective of the value of the case, right? So commission-based sales doesn’t work for this role.
If you’re in a place where it can’t be a percentage. There’s some states, correct, where you could do $50 per sign case, as long as it’s not a percentage of that amount of money.
There’s a lot of places where that’s prohibited as well, because the idea is you don’t want the you don’t want the person to have too much of a incentive to make the sale at all costs, right? Same reason why you can’t do family law, or same reason why you can’t do family law on a contingency fee basis, right? Um, criminal defense, things like that. You don’t want to create too much of an incentive to win at all costs, even if it’s against public policy, to win. Anyway, the point I’m making is so years ago, what we did was we engineered this, the comp model. And you break the comp model into three parts, right? Four parts. I’m sorry, you break the comp model into four parts. One part is the base salary. This is your base salary for doing the job of meeting with our prospective new clients, and having a professional sales interview with them, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right. Second part of the compensation is a subjective quarterly bonus based on subjective criteria, based on how well we like you and how good of the job we think you’re doing that is not directly tied to your your KPIs, right? You got that, right. Then you cut the job in half. Now there’s a second job you give the person, right? And the second job we’re going to give this person is client care, client care, quality control. So while all bar rules prohibit us from paying a non-attorney salesperson based on the value of the case, and many bar rules prohibit us from paying a non-attorney salesperson based on whether or not they made the sale. Old bar rules with no exception anywhere in the country that I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been studying this since 1999, all bar rules admonish us to improve client communication, more client care, more more, more communicating with the client to let them know what’s going on with the case and checking in on them? Yes?So we’ve created a second role in the firm for client care and the client care person, their job is to check in with the client about a week after they engage the firm. Did you get your onboarding package? Did you get all your questions answered? Are you receiving our welcome emails or is it going to spam? And let’s fix that. Did we get you- did did you have your your initial conversation with the attorney or the paralegal, whoever is going to handle the onboarding? Do you have any buyer’s remorse? Right? That should take place a week, about a week after the client engages the firm, the bar rules tell us that they want us to do this for the client. Yes? Right, right? About a month after the engagement, around the time that they’re going to get their first bill, if you’re billing by the hour, about a month after the engagement, you want the the client care specialist, the client care person to reach out to the client said, hey, it’s now been a month. You’re about to receive your first bill. Ideally, the client care specialist should say, let’s go through your bill to see if you have any questions. Do you understand these secret codes that the lawyers are using to describe the value? Right? They’re supposed to translate legalese into plain English that the client can understand, so the client can understand and appreciate the value that the firm has been doing for the first month. Right? Someone needs to translate this. This will dramatically increase client satisfaction. This will dramatically increase your Google ratings. This will dramatically increase the chances of getting referrals and repeat business from the client. This will dramatically reduce the number of hours that the lawyers have to spend answering these kinds of questions for frustrated and confused clients. Yes, makes sense, and I recommend, we recommend. Best practice is at about 90 days check in with the client again. Hey, it’s been about 90 days. Remember when you first engaged our services? You were this is what was going on when you first engaged our services. The this is how the problem that you hired us to help you with was impacting your life in terms of your time. This is how the problem was impacting you in terms of your money. This is how the problem was impacting you in terms of your reputation. These are all the things you said that you tried to do that didn’t work before. This is all the things you were hoping to try to achieve to make your life better. It’s now been 90 days. How are you doing? We give a shit about you as a human being. Even if your law firm does business to business, there’s still a human being on the receiving end of the services who is being personally impacted by the work your firm is doing. And we, the firm, care about you enough to check in with you after 90 days instead of just forgetting about you. You understand the value of this client service.
So meaning there’s a whole world of work being done that’s not just on the front end of signing up the case. That’s that’s the headline here.
Yeah, like, you know all those things that lawyers tell prospective new clients when they want the prospective new client to hire the firm, such as, you’re not just a number to us. You’re not just a case. We’re not going to treat you like a piece of meat. We’re not going to forget who you are five minutes after the ink dries. We want to create a procedure that actually honors those commitments, right? With a structured, systematic, organized, 7 day check in, 30 day check in, 90 day check in, understood.
Let me ask you this, the skill set needed between a salesperson up front versus customer service. Let’s call it on the back end. Does that morph who the ideal avatar is to do the job?
Not if you have the right idea about who you should be looking for, a salesperson.
Or there is, but it is not a traditional salesperson, because there’s another piece to it, potentially, not potentially the way you’re laying this out, that it has to be somebody who can not only connect and sell, but can make sure that the satisfaction remains high over time.
What I’m trying to say is your question to me initially was, what should we be looking for in an effective, profitable, ethical professional, a joy to employ, non attorney, salesperson, gotcha. The answer is you should be looking for someone who – can I curse on your show?
Sure.
Actually gives a flying fuck about the human beings who your law firm is supposed to be helping, right? And who, who brings that warmth, that care, that curiosity, that concern, that compassion, that interest, to the front end. That’s what you’re looking for in a non attorney salesperson. You’re not looking for some slick posture in a plaid suit doing a cliche sales job, right? This is the job of an introvert. This is the job of a of a relatively soft spoken this is the job of a person who’s organized, who’s interested, who’s curious, who’s compassionate. That’s what we’re looking for in the non attorney, salesperson. Oh, by the way, that person also gives a shit about the person, about the client, 7 days, 30 days, 90 days after they’ve engaged the services of the firm. These aren’t two different skill sets. These aren’t two different people. Get the right person and it it does everything. But let me finish the compensation part of it. Okay? Because we were talking about compensation, right? So we’re paying them. Remember, I told you it was four parts to the compensation. First part is the base salary, second part is the subjective quarterly bonus. And the third part, I guess, I said three, and then I said four because I second guessed myself, because I didn’t know what you’re going to talk to me about. There’s really only three. The third part is I’m going to pay you, let’s say $50 for doing the 7 day check in. I’m going to pay you. Let’s say $100 for doing the 30 day check in. And I want to pay you, let’s just say $150 for doing the 90 day check in again. And you get paid when you turn in your report demonstrating that you actually did the job. So you engineer this to be a self managing role, right, right?
Get it, no, sorry, you only pay. You only get your pay if the person is a still a client of the firm, and you’re incentivizing person to make sure that that that transpires. It’s brilliant.
And so then what you’re doing is every quarter, you’re looking to see how much did I pay this client care person who, by the way, has a second job as a salesperson, and you’re like, Okay, wow. You know what? Why is it that I paid you $10,000 bonus last quarter, and I’m only paying you $5,000 bonus this quarter? Well, because you’re not following up with as many people, or because last month or last quarter, you didn’t close enough business. So that’s how you engineered the role. So remember I told you, first is understand that it works. Second is understand that it doesn’t violate any bar rules. In fact, it exceeds all bar rules. It’s it satisfies and even goes beyond all bar rules when it’s done the right way. I said, number three is make sure you understand that it economically is very, very profitable for the law firm owner. It’s profitable for the client and it’s profitable for the person in the role. I said the next part is engineer the position to be profitable, and that’s how you engineer the position to be profitable. And then you were asking me sorry, then you’re asking me what to look for in the candidate. You. Yeah, that was, that was that I kind of, I kind of, I kind of stumbled into that answer.
Correct. That’s, that’s, that’s the question de jure.
Someone who does not have a law license, someone who did not go to law school, um, in most consumer practice areas, they don’t even need a college degree. In some practice areas where the client is highly sophisticated, you’ll need someone who’s highly sophisticated so they can just be at the same level with the person, right? The best place to find this role is hire one of your former clients. You do family law, you do divorce, you handled someone’s divorce. They’ve been through the experience. They’re a product of the product. They’re a built in advocate. They know what the person is feeling, they know what the person is experiencing, they know what the person is going through. That’s where you go to find your non attorney, salesperson, right? I’m not suggesting like any random client. Obviously they have to have the right skill set, the right personality, they have to care, they have to be organized, they have to be disciplined. And then we can train them on the skills, but go find someone whose divorce you handled. Go find someone who’s been through a personal injury case themselves. Go find someone who’s gone through a bankruptcy and knows what it’s like. Go find someone who’s been through the immigration process. That’s where you go to fill this role.
So as you do that, and you’ve identified somebody made it very clear the basic, you know, from empathy to giving a shit as as as important pieces and not traditional sales-
I do believe I said flying fuck, but-
Well we won’t -okay.
That’s why I don’t get invited back to a lot of places you see.
So my question is that can this is the thing that I that I struggle with on a bunch of levels. But I’ll start to ask you, when you hire somebody in an out of the box situation, you make money with the person stays with you for 2, 3, 4, years. Is there anything you’ve seen to determine upfront from somebody? Yes, you have a former client. Let’s say you have somebody who’s was the avatar, whether or not this is something they could do day in and day out and replicate over time, or would it break?
Yeah, there are some things that I’m looking for. One I’m looking for someone who loves to keep score. I’m looking for someone who really likes keeping score. Maybe this is a sports fan who knows the statistics of all their favorite teams, or something like that. The kind of they like keeping score, right? Because you gotta- this is a data driven role, right? Two, we’re looking for someone who’s organized. They were your client, the client who brought you a shoe box full of shit is not probably a good prospect for this, for this role, the client who came in and they always had their act together, they were always on point, they were always organized. That’s a good sign, right? The person you’re looking for someone who is genuinely curious, again, this person was your client. You know, the clients who are checked out and they’re not really involved in their case, versus the people who are asking nitpicky, annoying questions, versus the people who are right there in the sweet spot in the middle, who are asking intelligent, thoughtful, reasonable questions, and you give them thoughtful, reasonable answers and they they move on to the next question, right? The point I’m making is, by going back to your former clients, you actually have been, you’ve actually interviewed them for months. So you’re looking for, that’s what you’re looking for in a person.
I gotta, I gotta jump in. I got, I got a question for you as Seth and I have seen, I’m sure you’ve seen it as well the last five years, really, since COVID, there’s been a ton of advancement in hiring remote talent, people outside of the United States, through agencies and directly and that type of thing. And I’m just wondering I have, in fact, my my entire intake team is all remote. I mean, they’re all people who we go through their training and that type of thing. But it seems like a lot of lawyers who want to have this non attorney salesperson, literally want to wave a magic wand and just put somebody in the role and then ignore the role. But obviously, with your trainings, how long do you think. It takes to train someone up in this role, from newly hired to able to run without training wheels or supervision daily on top of them supervision, because I think the people in our audience need to recognize that this is not like going to the supermarket and buying a Snickers bar to satisfy you, right? Like you can’t just take something off the shelf and expect it to just function, right? Absolutely. So, so how long do you think it takes to get somebody really ready? And have Have you seen differences between the offshore people and the US based people that are in these roles? So it’s really a two part question,
right? So first, let me just make the larger meta comment. The larger meta comment is, I blame Tim Ferriss for this, and I blame him specifically for writing the book, which, by the way, I love, called The Four Hour Workweek. And the four hour workweek, Tim Ferriss taught all of us before covid about working with virtual assistance, right? And unfortunately, people took this concept of a of a human being who works virtually, and they somehow morphed it into this idea that if you call someone a VA, they should somehow magically be able to do things for you, right? A virtual assistant is exactly the same as an assistant sitting in your office. The only difference is they’re sitting somewhere else. You gotta interview them the exact same way. You gotta onboard them the exact same way you gotta train them the exact same way. You gotta hold them accountable to key performance indicators, the exact same way you gotta manage them the exact same way, right? Just because someone’s virtual doesn’t mean they’re not a human being, right? Your virtual assistant is a mother, a father, a sister, a brother, a son, a daughter, a husband, a wife. They wake up in the morning and they got to take their dog for a walk. They got to get their kids to school. They got to figure out how to buy groceries. They got to figure out how to manage their household. It’s a human being who just happens to be working remote but, but lawyers who have never thought about the business of running a law firm have this idea, and there are, unfortunately, a lot of agencies out there that promote this idea, that hire a virtual assistant, and it’s just A magic plug and play that somehow absolves you of the responsibility of training them and managing them. That’s that’s called abdication, not delegation. So that’s the meta conversation. Now your second question, your question was, um, in person versus virtual, yes? Is that your second question? Jay, well, Jay, what is your favorite flavor of ice cream? Wait a second, I can already predict your favorite flavor of ice cream is definitely chocolate. You know how I know that?
No.
Because you have a virtual intake team, if your favorite flavor of ice cream was vanilla, then you’d have a live, in person intake team. I’m being facetious. The point that I’m trying to make is live and virtual. It makes no difference. It only makes a difference, depending on how you choose to run your law firm. There are law firms that are strictly in person, where everyone on the staff works from the office. There are law firms, who are strictly virtual, where everyone’s virtual. And then there’s hybrids, especially after covid, we all learn we can have hybrids, right in person. Virtual hybrid doesn’t matter as a human being who needs to be trained, managed and supervised. And then your next question for me, I think, was, does the role of non attorney, salesperson work with an offshore person? That was your question? Well,
Well, yeah. I mean, no, my question really was, I know people can do it offshore, because they’re doing it for me, and we have never been more profitable. Um. Um And and they actually have a higher level of attention that I think some of my US based people were that were doing it
well, yeah, because you can hire a higher quality person who needs the job more and appreciates the income more for less.
Yeah, for sure. My question, my my second question was about that whole training period, like, how long do you does it take to because, because I see so many lawyers are like, well, I hired a VA they’re going to take all of my intake for me. And I’m like, did you train them? Did you even tell them what kind of cases you-
Why would I need to do that? They’re a virtual assistant. Virtual Assistant are a magical purple unicorn that don’t need any training. As long as they’re a virtual assistant, they could just do whatever.
And they’re $2 an hour. They know everything, and they’re $2 an hour. And it just, it just seems there’s so many lawyers who just want to-
wait sales for because, because the sales rep for the VA company told me a bunch of sweet, sweet lies that I was desperate to believe. And I’m such a naive fool that I bought at hook line and sinker, and I got seduced with the low price. And I don’t get to be seduced law firm off the fucking cliff. If who the wheels spinning upside down
That that comes down to the law firm owner. You’ve seen more law firm owners, you don’t need a salesperson selling you vas. People are like, they hear a vas, they’re, they’re, they’re just order takers. This is not like
Jay. Jay wants to know what’s the what’s the sales process? Yeah, right. This is the sales process. I’m not going to tell you about it. I’m just going to tell you what it is, right? This is what we do when we train non attorney salespeople for the 600 law firms that we manage. Yes, that was a plug. First, right? So the first thing you’re going to do is you’re actually going to give them actual training, right? The actual lesson on how to hand on how to conduct a structured, organized, ethical, professional sales call.
Thanks. I mentioned 99% of the lawyers in our audience don’t have that for themselves. They don’t write this stuff. They just, they just wing it when they get onto a sales call.
Jay, thanks for scheduling this appointment to speak with me. Is now still a good time to speak? Yes, yeah, great. Uh, we scheduled this call for about an hour, so that still works for you. Good. Before we get started, I want to assure you that everything we talk about will be kept strictly confidential. Okay, great. To make the best use of our time together, may I propose an agenda, as opposed to, I’m just going to jam an agenda down your throat? Yes, you can propose an agenda. Great. So the first thing I’d like to do is gather some information about you and your situation so I know what’s going on, and then afterwards, based on that, I’ll be happy to share with you relevant information about our firm, so I don’t waste your time telling you a whole bunch of random things about the firm that you don’t need to know about that’s not relevant to your situation. Then afterwards, I’ll be happy to answer any of the questions you have, and then we can start figuring out different options for you, and we’ll go through some of the pros and cons, and we’ll see if there is a way for us to help you. I’m not going to assume there’s a way to help you, because I don’t know anything yet. And then we’ll make a decision if we can work together or not work together. Does that sound like a good agenda? Jay,
Sounds like a great agenda.
Great, now we have an agenda. Now we got a plan to follow. Okay, great. So now I need to get some information about you as a human being, your age, your income, your education, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah now let me find out about the situation. Blah blah blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, okay, great, Jay, this is where you are now. Yeah, yeah, you are unhappy. You know how I know you’re unhappy because you’re in a lawyer’s office, because you’re talking to a law firm. If you were freaking thrilled with your situation, you probably wouldn’t be here. So I want to understand how the situation is affecting you now today, right? And you want to be in this happier place, right? So how is the situation affecting you today? How is it affecting you today in terms of your time? How is it affecting you today in terms of your money? How is it affecting you today in terms of your reputation? How do you feel about that? Why do you feel that way? Let’s dig a little deeper. Let’s get to the real heart of the matter. Why do you really feel the way you feel about the situation? Okay, what else have you- What have you done to try to solve this problem? Already? You. You try this, you try that, try the other. Okay, great. If I could wave a magic wand or give you a magic pill, if our lawyers could just do some magical stuff for you, because they’re the best people ever. Um, where would you like to be in three months, six months, nine months, 12 months, 18 months. Where is this place you’d rather be instead? Okay, describe it. And now let’s talk about in terms of your time and your money and your reputation. So this is where you are now. This is where you want to be. How do you imagine you’d feel being in this better place 12 to 18 months from now? You’d feel better? Really? Why? Why? Why? Okay, now, if you don’t do anything,
You can’t just wave a magic wand. You have to put in the work, just like you had to go to law school to become a lawyer. But if you put in this work, you’re gonna see the dividends. And RJon, I can’t thank you enough for just breaking it down so simply, because so many people I run into are looking to wave that magic wand. They don’t realize that there’s it is work, but it’s not decades of work to get somebody there, but it’s just you do the consistent work, you give them the script, you teach them how to do it, and then you let them loose to to make sure that they’re the right person for it, but I gotta thank you so much for being with us today. We did run over, folks, but I promise you it was worth every extra moment of time, because that playbook right there is is worth hundreds of hours of self study in this area. So RJon, thank you so much for being with us, folks. If you’re going to take us with you, you can take this podcast wherever you get podcasts. Just search up the recently registered trademark, the Law Firm Blueprint, and wherever you get your podcast. Be sure to give us a five star review. Of course, you can always catch the show live every Thursday at 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific, live in our Facebook group, but also live on LinkedIn. Seth, that’s going to do it for me. How about it? From you?
That’s great. Thank you RJon, for your time. Look, this is a very complicated process. We just started to scratch the surface on it, but it is giving me a lot of food for thought. So appreciate it very much.
And I got a feeling. RJon, if you don’t mind, you’re going to be back on again, again real soon, because you’ve got such good knowledge in this area that people need to hear. So I really appreciate you being with us today. And I actually already sent a message out to my intake said, saying, Hey, I got something you gotta listen to right after I get off this call. So so we’re putting this stuff into play today, today at my firm, and I hope you to do it today at your firms as well. That’s going to do it for me. I’m Jay Ruane, he’s Seth Price and the man down there is RJon Robins, thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. Bye for now.
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