BluShark Digital
Welcome to the SEO Insider with your host, Seth Price, founder of Blushark, taking you inside the world of legal marketing and all things digital.
Seth Price
Welcome, everybody. We're excited today to have Allen Rodriguez, the founder of ONE400 with us. Welcome, Allen.
Allen Rodriguez
Thanks for having me, it's a pleasure to be here.
Seth Price
You know, it seems like you've done, you've been in the legal space for a long time. And, you know, from the, from the bar perspective, from Legal Zoom, and now your own company, tell us what, what is ONE400 doing? And I want to get into how you got there?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, so ONE400, we consider ourselves a law innovation agency. So, you know, we, we, our clients are basically lawyers, legal tech, and legal support organizations. The way we help people is we connect them, you know, we connect our clients, when people need their services, we primarily do that digitally. So there's digital marketing services, right, and all the ways that you connect people there, we also have a small software engineering portion of our business, I would say, it probably represents about 20% of our business now, where we're creating web apps, or other tools that are, you know, software-based to help connect people. And then finally through our consultancy work where we help solve problems, like alternative business models for law firms or intake problems, lead intake problems, and kind of use technology to, to help along those lines, as well.
Seth Price
What, so how does somebody come to you, do they come as a consulting client, do they come as somebody who needs IT, and you pivot? Like, what is the normal way that clients come into your organization?
Allen Rodriguez
You know, again, if somebody wants to grow, right, like so, somebody has made a choice, hey, we want to grow. Quite honestly, most people think the path towards growth is marketing. Right? And so we typically start a conversation around that. But what we found that growth is actually a multifaceted kind of problem for our clients. Right. So oftentimes, what we'll find through our conversations with a prospect is that maybe they have all the business that they actually need, they're just not maximizing the lifetime value out of that business. They're not maybe maximizing, like intake, they're not, you know, their contact rate on new prospects might be in the tank, you know what I mean? And so through conversations with them, we identify what those issues are, we strive to resolve those issues first. And then we, we can always just buy more leads, right? Like, you know, marketing and advertising is, is usually just kind of a money problem when you're dealing with the right team, right? Like when you're dealing with the right customer, or the right agency that knows how to generate those leads. It's, it's just arbitraging money, right, like at that point. But it's all these other problems that typically go unresolved. And that's where we find like, clients just kind of bounce around from agency to agency thinking it's the agency that's the problem. But we try to fix that.
Seth Price
So basically, somebody comes to me, look, I run a 40-lawyer law firm and a digital agency. So I see it from both sides, right? You can make the phone ring, but if you're not answering the phone, if you're not capturing the lead, following up with it, and closing those cases, that's the first piece right? So you have plenty of marketing. But if you have that hole there, so then we spend a lot of time on, is there a certain software you advocate for of the, of the intake software? Or how, what like, what's your first step as far as technology for intake? What do you like?
Allen Rodriguez
That's a good question. So we we try to be agnostic, you know, in terms of like a specific recommendation, because not all-
Seth Price
Well, give me an example for a small startup firm versus large firm, doesn't have to be like "this is the only one", and the answer is it depends. But like, give me examples of how you guys would place a law firm with intake technology.
Allen Rodriguez
Clio Grow, for example, is, is a common solution that we might recommend. We're also Clio-certified consultants, right. So because of our relationship and our familiarity with that product, we might deploy that. However, there are limitations, right, you know, there's a lack of true automation in some parts of that software. So in that case, we might use like an active campaign or some other kind of non-law specific kind of software to solve the problem.
Seth Price
I'll just say, I geek out on this stuff all the time. Your thoughts on Lawmatics as a Clio integrator?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, so Lawmatics is pretty good. Actually, we just spoke with a client where we're wrapping up a Lawmatics product. I think it's great. I think it gets you closer to true, true automation, right, you know, in terms of like, helping with your lead intake and whatnot. You know, I, again, they all, they all have kind of their their pros and their cons. I think there's some limitations to Lawmatics too. It really depends on, on where the firm is, you know, in terms of their their own marketing journey and their own growth journey. But I think it's a great starting point Lawmatics, Clio Grow, like some legal industry specific solutions.
Seth Price
No, I was really excited when Clio, Lexicata turned into Clio Grow because it was the missing piece. I'm, my non-plaintiffs practice part of my firm uses Clio. And we're crazy. We use Salesforce as our intake software. But I think I sort of took the attitude, nobody gets fired for using Salesforce. So you know, but the integrations have, because it's not normal. Very few people are using it, except for some of the new PI technologies that are built on it. It's been harder, I think, for integrating than I would have expected, because it's so customizable, but it's not in demand. Clio's getting calls about Lexicata, about Lawmatics, or other things like that. Do you deal much in the plane of space? Do you, have you sort of seen the Law Ruler, Lead Docket, Captoura's of the world?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, so we do a lot of work in the, in the plane of space, we've done some work with mass tort firms where, you know, if you're generating that much lead flow, and you're managing that many prospects, yeah, Salesforce, as you know, is probably the right solution. There's other things that you can do, you know, you customize, like, for example, we're working with a firm out here in Southern California, they're a tenant plaintiff firm, but they really kind of prosecute these matters, like mass torts, because they'll go after an entire apartment complex, that sort of thing. And one of the interesting things that you can do with the technology is we could figure out like, where the slum, slumlords are aggregating, right, and we can create like a GEO map to kind of show like the plotting of like, different geographies, so that way, we can maybe do more proactive marketing, you know, in terms of identifying like, where these kinds of slum, slumlords are, you know, aggregating, so you can do that with the Salesforce, you can't really do that with like, say some of the other solutions. But now we're kind of entering in the realm of like customizing using API's and other sophisticated integrations.
Seth Price
You know, I geek out on the marketing side, it's how I built my firm and definitely a passion and what's, what's driven Blushark. Talk to me about, you know, what you see for clients and their needs, as far as you know, in the b2c world, my, and my philosophy is, you know, if you're not part of that direct response world where search, whether it be PPC, or LSA, the maps or organic, like that's where traffic is, you know, when you, it sounds like you have an eclectic group of clients, whether it's b2b, where that's not always the first place you go. Or if it's mass torts, where social work is that much better than direct search? You know, how do you, how do you balance sort of the needs of clients? Because I think one of the things I very directly will tell somebody, if somebody comes to Blushark as a b2b player, you know, I want to know, hey, are you maxing out your interpersonal relationships? Do you have season tickets? Are you a member of a local club you can take people to, because it's not like SEO is going to magically get a b2b person business overnight, you're not gonna get your highest and best ROI from SEO necessarily, like I believe in it. I know it works over time. But if you're not doing the fundamentals of connecting with, you know, general counsel's in places that can bring you business, and you're missing out, I assume that you have a similar sort of like, you're trying to figure out what's right for each client?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, for sure. Like in the b2c space, you know, like, people are hiring lawyers based on compelling events, right? So if you're there present, whether it's search or through an ad, or whatever other means, during that compelling event, you have a high likelihood of closing that deal. Pretty, it's pretty easy, right? Like, all things considered, right now on the b2b space, like, yeah, it's a very long tail. And I think that a lot of clients are maybe misinformed, right? Like, hey, this SEO strategies can give me that client, no, it's going to get you traffic. But that client is going to happen through a long, a longer series of content, educating them, building the relationship. So you know, you still need that kind of like, good old business development kind of efforts, you know, that, that human touch kind of reaching out, the marketing and advertising really just complement that, right. So it's really kind of-
Seth Price
It's great to be there. But if you're not, if somebody is, in a perfect world, if there's enough search traffic, you know, somebody will, will find you, like can an IP lawyer be found online? Yes, but the real, like everything else, I'm like, I'm struggling with this right now. I have a civil litigator at Price Benowitz. It's and like, we're optimizing and we're now showing for things but it's not generating you know, the necessarily mack daddy clients that you want, just through search. It takes that one-two punch of the offline gravitas to, okay, now I'm searching and I recognize this brand or this name, but to sort of like have no brand or name and not be known over an area of law, I just hope that the b2b world is going to find you through search and go there. Unless it's super niche, and you somehow create a site just about that area of law. somebody sees you as that expert, I almost feel like going back to the old blogging world where you sort of created authority online for something, it's just hard to be the king of many different things that way.
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, I mean, you know, just even using my own business as an example, right? We're a b2b business, you know, like, we serve as, you know, a law firm. So our journey isn't just like, Google ads, or, you know, SEO, like, yes, we do those things. They're, they're part of, you know, our overall strategy, but it's like creating content, it's been on, on a video like, like this one, right? Look, you know, where we're creating content, creating awareness. And then, once people are aware that we exist, we have to go out and kind of sell right, like, development.
Seth Price
Being fully transparent. So Allen and I were on a prep call for a Clio webinar, and didn't know each other, which was shocking, because we sort of traveled by similar circles. And, you know, to me, it's one of those deals where it's actually what you just said, very, very true. Because could you optimize or buy clicks for law firm consultant, you could, but that means a lot of things to a lot of people. So could you do, you know, intake consultant and financial consultant in marketing, you could, but, but if the name, if the brand isn't known it, I think it's that much harder. That said, you know, to me, you would be right for targeted Facebook, where you know, your audience, and you know, who is going to now is going to work immediately, no, but if they see one 400 enough times, and it becomes a brand early on, and we just lost a legend in the space. But Stephen Fairley ran the Rainmaker Institute, he did this early on with lawyers, he targeted lawyers he was in, it was always in your inbox, it was always on early Facebook. It was just brilliant how he did that. And then all of a sudden, it became a solution for people. And I feel like that is it's, you know, a combination of when somebody is looking, but you know, the purpose of this, this returning, this get to know you call into a webinar is, you know, genuinely, it's unpacking a lot of different stuff, I would not know that ONE400 does intake consulting, there aren't that many people out there doing it or doing it well. You know, so that's one piece, the fact that you're, you know, on the marketing company, and you're doing that, it's just, it's great to sort of see, see those different synergies, let's pivot for a second to the technology side, because to me, this is another whole area that is, you know, we bootstrapped our own, you know, and we still we hung tight, for the most part on Google Apps. And one of the things that is sort of interesting, is the sort of world of technology implementers, that have morphed into a very good business model for them at like a buck 20 a seat per month to sort of control your entire environment. You know, IT used to be free, you just paid somebody hourly to make sure it worked, to now it's a fixed cost expense, not, you know, for a midsize firm, not nothing. And the question is, you know, how do you navigate those worlds? Do you bite the bullet and pay for a fully managed place here? Or do you sort of, do you put it up and do now that everything's in the cloud, especially, you know, all this offers, you're talking about, can you manage this without that expense with some sort of consultant to make sure it's set up right, to do both hardware, customer service, as well as software updates and troubleshooting, you know, do you need the person who's fully managed, given that you have all the other softwares? You know, where do you guys fall on that?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, so we don't provide any managed IT services, right. So I, I can't speak to the business model. I can, I can tell you, though, like, I pay for convenience, right, like I'm willing to pay for convenience. And I think most people, most consumers, that's what they're buying a lot of cases, right? They're buying some kind of convenience. And so if I don't have to troubleshoot my own IT issues, that sort of thing, like-
Seth Price
Well of course you're not going to be doing it. The question is, do you fall into the widget? It's like, many software started out, all the software started out where you would like pay $500 for the license, and then maybe a maintenance upgrade. Yeah. And pretty much everybody got smart to the fact you make a lot more money charging recurring revenue over time. Clio entered a market which was primarily buying licenses. And they said, No, we're not playing that game. You know, brought the Salesforce pricing model to it have slowly creep it up to a very, very good business model for them. And yes, you're paying for convenience. It works. Yeah, there's no updating software. It's just it's all there and taken care of for you. I'm just curious from a consulting point of view, given that everything is now moving into the cloud. Do you need that per seat expense? Or are there solutions? Because most of the people, just like Clio has said, Hey, we're not playing this game, you're paying this much per seat per person, these different tiers, you know, many of the IT vendors have moved in that direction as well. Is that something you think law firms should be at? Or with the right talent, either full or part time, depending on your size? Can you get away without those sort of fixed costs to your firm?
Allen Rodriguez
I see what you're saying. Yeah, I think, you know, it comes down to kind of being able to do the math, right? Like, as a startup, you probably have to bite the bullet, right? Like, you're essentially outsourcing that, you know, that service right to, to that company. But like, depending, you know, once you get to a certain size, then you can pull that experience in house, if that brings you better service, faster turnaround times, and then saves you some money. So I think there's-
Seth Price
it's like, and again there's no right answer, when you go one direction, you know, it's risk. To me, I am just thrilled that everything has moved towards the cloud, I know that I'm unlikely to find an in-house person for sure. an outside vendor, like I, if I go down, I want it to be because Google screwed up, or Clio screwed up, not because of the guy that I have in the house that talks funny and doesn't really, I don't really understand fully, that he's, so the idea that we have sort of traded, you know, you know, while Clio costs more than their prior incarnations with other companies, the fact is, they solve problems for you, and take a certain amount of risk and liability away from you, which I really like, and the fact that that's there, I get it, yes, you're paying for convenience. The question is, as people and that's what I was pushing you on, is, as more and more of your solutions are cloud based and not managing a server in house? You know, are we getting to the point where that the virtual piece that, you know, I'm always looking at, like, as an owner, will something come down in cost? Will the management of your IT come down? Because you're doing less and less, you're really just turning on a monitor, and having an internet connection for much of what you're doing throughout the day?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah you know, I, I'm still oftentimes surprised, like, people are still kind of, on these legacy systems. I mean, you know, like, if COVID has done more to, like, help adopt that, like technology, you know, then then we have been able to do in like my 21-year career in the legal industry, right. So like, for us, you know, we still have a physical office, but you know, we're 100% remote right now, because of COVID. I mean, I remember on March 13, all we had to do is really clean out the fridge and give each other one last hug and whatever, right, like business as usual, because all of our systems are cloud based, you know, that sort of thing. So, yeah, I mean, I think there, there are some clear advantages, you know, like, those legacy systems are, you know, the cost to kind of maintain those now are starting to increase substantially. So even like, when you look at the kind of subscription, like cloud based model for these cloud solutions, like I think you'll find that they still remain competitive, you know, and with all the other advantages that you get, of being a cloud based organization.
Seth Price
No, it was, it was wonderful. For many of us, you know, it was not ideal, but it was very durable. Yeah. And there's a lot of stuff, there's not going back, you know, I don't see people working five days a week in the office anytime soon. You know, even if magically, we were okay, tomorrow that, like, we have seen that we can do things, we can trust things. And look, there'll be a ying yang, because, look, I've just five minutes ago, I have a meltdown with homeschooling going on behind me, it's not it's not perfect, and I have enough space in my home to put up with it. I have a lot of key employees that are in an apartment or condo. And you know, they're raising kids, and that, you know, everything that is thrown off equilibrium. And if there's a lot, a lot, a lot of stress. Any other areas of ONE400 to explore. We talked about the intake, the marketing, the technology, do you have any other areas?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, one other area, I think like, so a lot of people approached us as a technology company and looking for a tech solution. And oftentimes, the thing that we find it's like, well, you know, not everything needs, like a tech solution. Right, sometimes just a little creative thinking. So, you know, kind of tying this back into. We're talking about SaaS and software. One of the things one of the areas that we're seeing a lot of growth with in law firms is subscription based services. Right? So rather than pay your, your attorney an hourly fee, why don't you just hire them on as on a subscription basis? This works particularly well with b2b you know, firms, General Counsel and all that stuff. Yeah, you know, just like that kind of fractional work, you know, and so like adopting that different business model isn't a high tech solution, just like you know, have you been bold enough to like, drive it now? Now there is software and there are technologies that can help once you make that decision. Yeah, you know, but outside of that, like oftentimes what we find, you know, as people come to us for tech, and oftentimes, it's just good old process, right? Like, oh, you know, checklist.
Seth Price
Right. And then look, I get that all the time, something comes for law. And it's really a business decision, when it comes from marketing. And it's really an HR, you know, there's all sorts of things where you really, people don't, you know, it's hard, it's easy to see as an outsider, which is why consultants are great, how does the pricing model work? Somebody comes to you and says, Hey, I'm really confused about what to do for intake. How does a client you know, what do you? How does, how do you approach that?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, so we want to exemplify the change we'd like to see in the industry, so we try to set our pricing accordingly, right? So if we can scope, the work, and 90% of the time, we can scope the work, and we'll put a bid on flatfee, right? It offers predictability to the client, it allows us to kind of work within, you know, kind of set parameters, and then deliver a specific outcome based on that scope. So, so that's the way we do it. In the case where we can't determine scope, or somebody kind of needs to use this as a sounding board or something like that, then we charge hourly, you know, as consultants, you can you just pay for our time, right? You know, to be that sounding board. Somebody might, you know, give us a retainer and say, Hey, I just kind of want to use you for this, this sort of thing. But those are really the minority of our projects, most of the stuff we'll figure out scope and will bid on it.
Seth Price
So I mean, because that, to me, that it's like whether, you know, there's so many, people don't always know what they need. So I assume that you do, a do, do a 360 for somebody to sort of figure out where you can help them. How do you figure out what, what somebody, somebody thinks they know what they need, but how do you figure out what, what based on your guy's consulting expertise makes sense for engagement?
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, so it's, you know, just first off any anybody that reaches out to us, like, we, we have this philosophy where we don't sell, we help, right? And through our help, like, we'll get your money, you know, it's yeah, we'll make our money. So typically, an initial consultation is like, they think they need this particular thing. And sometimes they do need, in fact that you know, that, that one thing, but oftentimes, we find that like, oh, they need several other things, right. And so through that initial consultation, we'll, we'll typically inspire some other ideas or thoughts in them. If it turns out like, yes, they they do need this other thing. There's probably some initial scope there. So like, if it's a marketing agreement, you know, they say, I need SEO or, you know, some, some kind of tactic, right? And we say, well, actually, what you need is a plan of attack, right? So we might sell them a marketing strategy, then like, Hey, here's how long it takes us to put this together. Here's what we charged for that. This, this should be your starting point. You know, it's, and so then we'll do that. And same with consulting or some other kind of software development project. They'll be like, hey, I want to develop this web app. And like, why, what's the purpose? What would an MVP look like? Right? Minimum Viable Product? What, what are all those things? And so what we might do is sell them kind of the plan, initially, the design, so to speak, the roadmap, and then that way, whether they hire us to kind of follow the roadmap and build that out for them or some other agency, they have a solid roadmap.
Seth Price
That's great. So we could go on forever, I know you're trying to multitask work with vacation. Any, any final thoughts before we wrap up here?
Allen Rodriguez
No, you know, I think, you know, as people kind of explore potential solutions, whether the technology-based, you know, like, I think these are always better when you come to, to the experience with a plan, right? Like, I would say, you know, be maybe focus on your desired outcome. And then let your partner kind of help you determine the right path towards that desired outcome. Because there's a lot of people, whether it's consulting services, technology or marketing, a lot of people come with the tactic, you know, and rather than rather than the desired outcome.
Seth Price
You know, and it's funny, I came to this, I'll take, take myself back in the time machine a couple years, we had fallen, just like my law firm started out with the cheapest software ever. We found it at a trade show. It was designed for public defenders, and they charged us $40 a month for online software. It wasn't very robust, but it kept it was case management. And one day, the guy called me, and he's like, you know, with this point, we had about 40 users. And the guy called me, he said, you know, we're using a lot of users now we gotta raise your rate and I'm expecting like, $50 a person per month and he's like, We got to go to $80 per month for everybody. And I'm just like, Okay, we could do that we can do that. Yeah. And that's why when I went to find like the next level, it was time to upgrade and say, Okay, we're ready for the big boys, part of the frustration and finding software I found. And I think one of the things you probably are makes you guys really valuable is that when you Google Online, for case management software wether it be Clio, or My Case, or whatever the different, you know, whatever the choices of the day are, and the non PII space, for example, the problem is that so many of the reviews and and sort of editorials about things are paid placements by those groups, like they have advocates out there, not in a bad way. But it is so hard to find an independent person because most law firms tell you what they like or don't like about a software, but you don't know what their prejudices are. You don't know whether they are using stuff well. And if they use this other one, they might have been much better off. So the idea, I think that, you know, we have there's one very prominent blogger who sort of quasi reviews them, but they're one offs, rather than somebody who says, Hey, we're looking inside of six law firms, at the size you're at, this makes sense for you now, you know, and somebody say, what about this, it's like, well, you could do that. But that's generally for somebody at this stage, or if you wanted these benefits, and to me, that is the piece that the world is missing. So the fact that you're pushing into that direction, I think, is awesome, because I know for myself, it was a very lonely process where you ask people their opinion, but it's like, you know, on Facebook, when somebody's reviewing, you know, a restaurant, you have no idea what their taste and you agree with it. And if they've been to the place, that would be, you know, have they been to other places, that would have been better, but they just, they went there. So they want to tell you, they love it.
Allen Rodriguez
So yeah, let me give you the quick analogy. So this is the same story we share with everybody who's like in the market. And so it's like, if you've ever had to remodel like a bathroom or a kitchen or something like that, then you say, Look, I'm going to talk to three contractors, so I can get an average price. So you call in contractor number one, they're like, look, we're gonna use this type of tile, we're gonna use this type of showerhead, whatever, contract number two says, Now you don't want to use that kind of tile you want you and so every contractor is selling you on a solution that they prefer, right? And so the best, the better experiences, go out and get it designed, right by like an independent third person, get the kind of bathroom designed, or the kitchen designed, then calling all the contractors on a Saturday morning, give them the project design, say, Look, I need three bids on this right. So so what I'm saying-
Seth Price
Because the, for most people we're buying out of the box. So yeah, you can say what you want, and which one is closest. But really, to a certain extent, it's like, where are each of these softwares and getting away from what's going to happen? Right? With every one of them. They're telling us what's planning, and you have no idea if it's three months away, or three or four years away.
Allen Rodriguez
And that's what I'm saying like, you know, the law firm, they need to like, capture their own workflow first, right? Because here's the other problem, you buy some out of the box solution, it's got all these great bells and whistles, but you under utilize it. Because you have mastered your workflow, right? You know what I mean?
Seth Price
Understood, but to a certain, certain, like, it also depends where you are in your lifecycle. Like right now, I could give you workflow, I probably couldn't seven years ago, because we were growing, we're figuring stuff out. And so part of what people turn to the software for is to help them with that workflow. I know, I know, that's not the right way to do it. But that, you know, you don't know what's possible. And that to me, again, my gripe, you know, we moved on the PI side, from, you know, with with a smart advocate to a smart advocate today from trial works in the past that a lot of people have, like other legacy systems, was that, to me, one of the things I scream for these companies to do, is to have more customizable options that are options, the idea that you're going to design stuff, so few people actually take the time. Maybe you guys can do that. But most people haven't found you yet. So the idea that here are four, here's 10 reports, which ones do you want, rather than saying, Hey, you can customize anything you want? It's not you know, you don't know what you don't know. And my guess is like, when you go to restaurant, say, What's the most popular dish? That was that gonna be the best dish you're gonna like, it isn't even your taste. But at least you know, these are the most people who come here have one of these three dishes. And I feel like I wish that the software companies basically said, Look, we know what you we know more about what you need than you know what you need. Here it is, if you really want after looking at all our different pre customizable report, you want something else? Great, we'll do it. But I feel that that most softwares don't give you the option to sort of say to do choose like old Chinese menu wise, where a, b and c they're basically saying, Hey, we could do anything. That's great. But for the average business owner, law firm business owner, it's almost like you don't want to reinvent the wheel. If this is what's been Important every other law firm and there are people like you out there consulting with them. Why should you have to do it from scratch? That's my own personal gripe, I'll get off my soapbox.
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, no, I hear you, you know, and it's a compelling argument. But I would say like, you know, software companies, I mean, they're obviously like, they're making these big capital investments, right, and building solutions. So they kind of want a one size fits all, but like, you know, prosecuting work as a family law attorney versus a bankruptcy attorney versus, you know, PI attorney, right.
Seth Price
Like, that's why I think if I, if I was, you know, mayor of this world, I would say, Hey, if you're buying a software, and you are family law, there would be pre-templated family law options there. You know, you're gonna get like a report for court things, you may, you may have pings to tell you to touch base with clients, something with, with family or in particular money, such a big deal that you had alerts when money in, in the, the escrow accounts goes below a certain amount, you could ask for more, there are things that are specific to each practice area, which could be so valuable. Yeah, where you don't know to ask it, but they know, they have so many freaking bankruptcy clients, so many freakin family law clients, they could put that together and turn that into something. I just, that's, that's my personal gripe, again, not everybody has an Allen, that can sort of say, to set you up with this great. But, you know, things that we've sort of looked at this point on my PI software, we actually have a full time person in house for who's been doing it for the last nine months, and a paralegal who felt pulled out of day to day paralegal who just creates systems and reports. And, you know, I can't imagine again, that we're at that point, but it's the greatest thing ever. And without it, you're right, we were using 10% of our old software.
Allen Rodriguez
Yep. I, you know, 100% Yeah, you know, and unfortunately, like, that's where, you know, again, I come at this where like, sometimes the best tech solution is a low tech solution. And and so like, if somebody is like looking for the best bells and whistles, I might push back and say like, Hey, why don't we just figure out the workflow first? Why don't you figure out the workflow first? Why don't you go talk to other successful family law? Attorneys, build your network, right? And then figure out like, what's working for them?
Seth Price
And again, what I'm saying is I just, in my perfect world, that would be an like, they would say, Yeah, your family law options, are you? Are you paying hourly? And then because think about how inefficient that world is, you're talking about where you have to go network in research, you have to find somebody who's willing to talk, you have to talk to them, then they have to be willing to share with you, then you have to assume they're telling you the right thing that they have. Right, you assume that they know what the hell you're talking about, because most law firms are so deficient in how they run their business.
Allen Rodriguez
I think it's coming. I think that's what AI, you know, big data, you know, aims to accomplish. Right?
Seth Price
And I'm saying it's one step before that. Yeah. All of that's great. And that's going to make our lives better and better, hopefully. But the idea that the, the law firms are, you're saying figure out your workflow, great, but I'm saying is, I feel like there's a huge demand for people to give proposed workflows. So you can say, hey, I'm pretty close to that I can, I can work with that, rather than having to sort of build something out from scratch, which, which I've seen, if you go around so many law firms, you sign up, you get trained, and I said, Look, I'm guilty of this, we had one situation where we got everybody trained. And then one day, I woke up and realized that like, early on over five years, 40% of the team wasn't there. And the new people had not really been trained well enough. And I'm losing my mind, because you're paying for the software. And you have these people. So it mean, it's, it's one of those things, it's also how pricing goes because, you know, the training is a la carte, so it's just another scary expense. You know, to a certain extent, I almost wish that the companies charged an extra $10 a month for the software, and it almost went to like their own escrow. And that, would you, they forced you to have X amount of training, because without it, you know, you really can't start, you know, you're not using the software well.
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, I think you know, what, what you're describing is happening outside of the legal industry in a lot of ways, right? Like, there's a lot of like really great tech that says, Oh, you've never done this before. Here, let us walk you through that. Here's some templates. Here's how you get started. Right? So they're kind of proposing these workflows. I think legal tech is one of those areas where, you know, we're still emerging, you know, as, as an industry vertical. And so, you know, because of the people make the arguments and the complexity of law, you know, the complexity like in all the different jurisdictions, all the different courts, all the different rules, so it's really hard to build for that. But I do I agree with you on that point. And I think it's coming.
Seth Price
Like the big boys like Salesforce, we want to say we have to build everything from scratch. I'm just, man, wouldn't it be great if here's your legal, here is your law firm, you know, here's your family law firm here, you know, again, that Salesforce is not meant for law. It's meant for other stuff, but the idea of, hey, I'm an inbound, inbound sales, okay, set it up this and there's, there's so much it's great that it's customizable as well, and I know like, I don't disagree with you, yes, you need to figure out your workflows, and then find out what's out there. But that's a lot more heavy lifting. I just, you know, what I love about Clio Grow, is, look, it may not be the most robust thing in the world, but it works. And so for most people, I mean, I saw Michael, when he, when he had Lexicata, you'd be a trade shows, and people were like, if he was like teaching people how to slice the bread, they're like, wow, like the meaning he's taking people from nothing to really a very viable, you know, a very viable solution, which puts you lightyears ahead about not not doing anything. So I that's part of it. It's like getting those things going. And I feel like some of the newer software's that I've seen, like the Lead Dockets, you know, they did a very nice job of doing a very nice sliver really well, and that probably led to their acquisition, you know, by File Vine. So it's, you know, to be continued, I can't, I can't wait for our, our upcoming webinar with Clio and getting to know you more, but really, thank you so much for your time today.
Allen Rodriguez
Yeah, thank you. It was a pleasure being on here with you, and this was a lot of fun. I look forward to working with you.
Seth Price
Sounds great. All right.
BluShark Digital
Thank you for tuning in to the SEO Insider with Seth Price. Be sure to check back next week for fresh insights into building your brand's online presence. Episodes are available to stream directly on Blushark Digital's website.
