Join Seth and Jay as they talk about the inevitable – when SYSTEMS fail and things go off the rails, and how each lawyer dealt with recent setbacks.
Hello, hello, and welcome to another edition of Maximum Growth Live. I’m one of your hosts, Jay Ruane, CEO of FirmFlex, your Social Media Marketing Funnels for Lawyers, as well as the manager of the Criminal Mastermind and CEO of Ruane Attorneys. Some issues this week with just being the CEO we’re going to talk about, but with me, as always, is my friend down there, DC, Maryland, Virginia, South Carolina powerhouse law firm, Price Benowitz, the man, the myth, the legend, Seth Price. As well as one of the founders of BluShark Digital, SEO for lawyers and law firms. So, Seth, I want to check in with you, see how you’re doing. How’s your week going? Seth, what’s new?
Well, in one sense, great, happy to be here. You know, just, you know, you know, as I listened to Jay Ruane, king of all systems, I am humbled by the fact that I feel like I, I am not, I have this great large expanse of law firm, a lot of stuff well, and yet, I feel that I can’t run systems as well as I should be able to, when I say that is, you know, a credit card was maxed out by a department this week, we have probably a half a dozen credit cards that are eligible for the firm, right? Different points, cards, this and that. Luckily, the points are, and yet that one credit card maxing out brought a number of things to a standstill, meaning phones went off for 10 minutes today, a client lunch couldn’t be ordered yesterday. And all it takes is some sort of processes to say, okay, yeah, these credit cards, what’s the order of operation, doesn’t exist for my administrative team at the front desk, didn’t exist on our, you know, and truth be told, bones have gone down before for such a reason. We live in 2022, I got to be able to create systems for the contingencies of what goes wrong, especially given it’s a known issue that has happened before and will happen again.
You know, it’s interesting, I’ve got in my system, and I gotta put it in phones are down, as I’ve checked to see it might be there. But we have in our systems manual in our wiki, a in case of emergency entry, where we walk through 40 different things that could blow up, you know, a lawyer gets hit by a car on the way to court. You know.
Those are real freaking issues. And the truth is, 90% of those are going through Jay for the foreseeable future, I get that. That said, a credit card maxing out, which happens on a periodic basis, is not like you wanted to, but when somebody puts an expert witness on a credit card that wasn’t planned, and maxes out something. So all of a sudden, the thoughts and the two things that come to mind, which is why it comes back, everything’s back with Jay Ruane, is the following. One is the, so on the administrative side, when they need to know what to do when the Uber Eats is not working for a client lunch, right? The fact is, I said, Okay, great. We learned that yesterday, I pushed back and didn’t just say, hey, here’s another credit card, say, figure out how to do it, channeling my inner Jay Ruane, but I said today, was it updated? Oh, I haven’t had time for that. Did you make a note anywhere that shows what you want to update when you want to update it? Oh, no. This is a guy going to law school. And I’m just pushing people to say, hey, what’s gonna make you money in life is when you have the ability to solve those problems. And I just, I wish I could somehow wave a magic wand and say… That’s one half, I can let you answer that. And the second half is, you know, we’re in 2022. Now, we’re probably stuck in small business account, even though we probably have close to 100 cell phones. And there’s got to be some way to have a credit card backup, a bank account backup, God forbid, credit line from Verizon for one month service after using them for you know, a decade or two. You know, talk to me a little bit about going from systems as a concept to internalizing them so that they become living breathing organisms that continue to build and grow, best practices for that because right now, with the little hair I have, I’m ready with that.
So okay, so we ran into your credit card issue a while back I mean, like four or five years ago, and nothing as major as the phone’s going down happened, but it was something that all of a sudden, wait, what why is this? Why is this not going through? And we quickly figured out. So one of the things that we’ve decided to do is we’ve actually automated payments towards that credit card every week. So we had every Friday without fail, five grand gets paid towards that.
and the irony is… ..agreed and we like, same same right? Five years ago, we did that. And somehow in that one week interval, it went to the moon. $60,000 got spent or whatever it was.
So before I get to the answers, let me tell you about my week. I’m looking at the quick books and I’m seeing you know, 10s of 1000s of uncollected dollars that are not coming in and are unpaid over the last 30 days, is growing daily. And it shouldn’t be because most things that we have are done by credit card, most things that you know, people, the people that are not paid in full for our practice, are on standard monthly payments. And, you know, we don’t like to go out, you know, more than six months, because we want to make sure that we’re getting paid on a high turnover type clients. So about a, so about a month ago, end of March, end of March, intake sales lawyer comes to me and says things are getting screwed up with payment plans, we’re taking somebody off payments, they’re not going to do it anymore. I’m going to do all my payments inside my team, we got this. So I say okay, that’s cool. So that happened at the end of March. End of January, we had taken somebody off of intake to elevate them to legal admin position… and this was a person who was working intake, and had not only worked with intake, but worked intake second part of the week, and included the weekend. Now, I knew this was going on on the weekend, because it was something to fill her time. She was actually auditing all the intakes for the week, she was actually going back to Monday stepping through each one, you know, are the cases open in our system, are the court motions filed, are the payment plans set up, are the payment plans set up in our CRM, are they set up on our credit card processor, she was creating this massive spreadsheet that she was working off of. And it was essentially auditing the intake process. Which was great. Because every Friday night, every Saturday night, I would get this email from her saying checked everything boss, everything looks good for this past week. We’re awesome. Okay, so that was going on from you know, July through January. We have a senior paralegal who’s going out on maternity leave at the end of June. And we said, you know, we need to add somebody to her team, elevate somebody, put somebody underneath them, so that we can handle the bandwidth while she’s gone. So the idea was, well, this woman is working well, let’s take her, elevate her because she seems to, you know, want to learn more about law and that type of thing. And we’ll put her into this process. So she moves over to legal ops.
I’m gonna do what I do at the mastermind, what’s the issue?
So she moves over to legal ops. And nobody takes over being her intake auditor position. The intake team doesn’t really pick up on the fact that that person is missing. So they miss a few things. That starts to snowball. They miss a few in February, a few more in March. By the time you get to April, they’re missing a lot. Nobody has audited and caught those things. And so now we’re at a point where, and here’s the kicker, in late March, that woman gets terminated because we find that they caught her sleeping on the job, that like just her… I don’t think she was happy in legal ops. She’s a remote, she was a remote worker and… we upset the applecart. So it was a systems failure from partner level down to the basic level, all mess up at all different levels. And that really sort of caused a you know, a $10,000, $30,000 error in the month of April. Now, we started to see this and say, Why are we so far behind?
Checks and balances, but it just, it was, and look, that’s always the Achilles heel. Firstly, we lost you know, we had to make a quick fire earlier this year at a very senior level, in the last year rather, and I’m still finding those little things that were being done that weren’t quite perfectly systematized where the new team just had no idea that they needed to be done. And it’s, it’s basically we aspire to Jay systems perfection. But the truth is we don’t live in that perfect world.
So here’s the thing, right? I’m sure you have friends, I have friends that are, you know, they fancy themselves Home Improvement guys, right. And so what they do is they go out, and they have a tool for every situation. They’ve got, you know, they need to cut into a corner, they’ve got the dremel with that corner piece. They’ve got, you know, they’ve got pipe wrenches from, you know, a half inch.
Time out, I’m gonna pop your bubble, because I have a friend who’s not up to the lower to mid and home improvement. Right, he’s not like a homebuilder. They’re fix it guys, a lot harder to fix than to build from scratch. And you know, the truth is, they deal with these same issues. In fact, when I’ve gone to conferences, I’ve met people, financial services, Home Improvement, who listen to this podcast, because they get it. And the problem is, it’s one thing for the principle to know it. But how do you send somebody out with all those different permits.
And that’s exactly my point. You know, you and I know people who literally will go out and they’ll buy every tool. But they’ll actually use three tools every day, and they won’t use any of the other ones.
So most of them are our domains, we buy those crazy domains and don’t use them, they buy those tools, and then use the same three things and they go out.
Exactly. And so what you need to do is actually have a culture in your office of going to the systems, using them so much regularly, that you’re checking to make sure, is this still the way that we do?
Let me… question: Is it the, what’s the vernacular you use? Or is it like the system? What do you call it, what is…
We call it Ruane Co, because it’s ruane.co. So in the office, we just say is it in ruane.co?
Do I, right now I’m on Google Docs, I’ve never made the move, your brother had this amazing product that he’s created. The question is, does that make any difference if it’s a living, breathing thing online, or like good within just a culture of going…
No, because the thing about having it as a living breathing website, like my brother has set up that we use, is that, it’s you know, it’s indexed. It’s searchable by keywords, by phrases… oh, yeah, it’s password protected, you have to log in.
And if you make a change, what if I want to make a change to it?
Anybody, anybody with the permissions can go in and make the edits. And it tracks who makes the edits, when they made the edit, you can restore to prior points if you have to, integrates with Slack. So when somebody, you know, if you’re on Slack, or if you’re on another one of those platforms, if somebody just makes a change, everyone gets an alert, that there’s been a change to this system, that type of thing, we’re actually in the process of moving over, because we’re on, you know, like version one, and he’s on version five of this stuff. So I actually have somebody in my office now, and this is the wonderful thing that we discovered is that we have somebody who is our Systems Auditor, and her job is to make sure that the systems stay up to date. She is a part time employee who was with us full time and now has gone part time and went remote. And so her job is to bring everything over onto the new platform. She’s recording all new Looms, for all the videos, and one of the things that we’re thinking about doing, I wanted to get your advice on this. So we terminated this employee at the end of March. But maybe we rushed to terminate her. And she actually would be well served back on intake. Doing that…
So that’s, that’s a couple of things, like you get promoted out. So first, you got to figure out and I’ve done this a number of times. Usually it’s the other way around. It’s like I have it both ways, like my law partner gave and you’re a little fuzzy, by the way, my law partner gave, you know, always says don’t go and move people around within the firm because we have not had awesome success of that. That generally, when we find somebody who doesn’t survive well in one, in theory, you should figure out where they were. And I know that that’s our dream. But most of the time that we have found, I’ve given you a generalization at the law firm, that when we’ve changed things around, it’s not like they went from like blah to rockstar. It is generally there’s a reason that you’re moving them out. Now you want to be able to give a road for improvement and if you don’t, you’re going to to lose people that way. You’re damned if you’re damned if you don’t, but when somebody is like, if it’s being done because somebody is not awesome. I have found, you know, to use a Curb Your Enthusiasm as in, you know, you don’t want to foist your issue from one place to another department. That doesn’t sound like the case here. But we have seen this over and over again, where when we try to say, hey, this isn’t working here, let’s just shake it up using a Madman reference and move them over here. It’s not like that’s a panacea, that the that generally there’s, there’s issues that come with them.
Yeah. So let me get your advice then. So we had somebody who was killing it on intake, and said she wanted to grow with the company. Right? So we moved her over to legal ops.
Why not just manage her, have a manager of intake?
Well, that well, then, so what happens is intake is one department, legal ops is another…
But with intake, do you have an hierarchy within intake?
We do… but we thought she was best capable and able to handle the stuff in legal ops…
To be snarky, you thought wrong… with a smile, I’m just…
Oh absolutely. We bombed this. I you know, this was, I turn this over to my new Legal, Director of Legal Operations. He said, look my people don’t trust her. They’ve caught her sleeping a number of times. And…
Actions speak louder than words. So she wasn’t doing fine anymore…
I want to cut her. And I said…
Oh, well, or you say, or look, again, if she was great, or at least B+ at intake, we give a shot, getting good people is hard, she knows you you like her, if in fact, or there’s something else going on in her life. And like right now, I can’t tell you how many people in my professional life where work is not their primary focus. Family, sickness, mental health. And again, they’re all legitimate things. It’s just very hard to run an operation where you know that some of the people in your orbit have significant interpersonal or personal issues going on that make it really tough.
So you bring somebody back that you fired a month ago, and make them an offer, and…
Did you fire her, or did you just what?
No, I didn’t. But the firm fired her and said, you’re gone. We’ve caught you. They say they can’t trust you. No warning. It was you’re done. And she was devastated…
The book would say you’re done. You’re done. Move on, like that. But again, you and I have always gone with our gut. And generally that’s been right. It’s not like I brought people back and it’s look, I’ve had issue where somebody very senior as you know, left our firm. It was definitely strained for a period and then they stumbled back into my professional orbit and life and are now in it, and it’s awesome. That wasn’t somebody who is the opposite of somebody you didn’t want to lose. But again, if you think like Andrew Finkelstein’s it’s like you’re done, you’re done. Generally. There’s a lot of people without people coming back. But if you were like, look, we jumped the gun. You know, you can give yourself a narrative, there was a non replicable issue going on in their life that made them fall asleep on the job or do whatever. I talked to Mario, big fan of the show, and he’s dealing with a high profile person who is moving on. And, you know, it’s there, the question we have is do we give enough chances, don’t we? Again, nobody is going to tell you it’s okay to bring her back.
Have you hired anybody back after you fired them?
We had one person who was in and out of the firm for a period of time, I don’t remember if they were fired, fired, but they left, sort of walked…
I want the audience to pipe in on this. So comment down below and let me know, would you bring somebody back? If you would have fired them…
It would take an exceptional, arguable clear path reason. A lot of people say no, no matter what, right? You know, I, you and I both are people-people, if you feel like there’s a, something has changed, say it’s an alcoholic, and then they’re clean for three years, does that make a difference? Or have you burned a bridge? You know, that’s…
I mean, can you trust somebody who you’ve already fired? I mean, the reality is, is that the firing I don’t think was necessarily handled the best way. There wasn’t a warning, but I was giving my…
But hold on right there, look, we are sitting here ramming against issues in our firm. If I’m saying this administrative person didn’t, isn’t updating the system, well, per my wishes, we make plenty of mistakes, right? We’re not, we can’t throw stones. So what you’re saying is as a CEO, you didn’t hire, you didn’t handle a situation well. Had you done a correction and given a warning and said, Look, this just can’t happen again, and it kicked him in the ass. Every day we have somebody on intake. Our intake was really a probable, pivot into that for a second. And we, good news we went from, we fell at a low point for a minute of 70% of inbound calls being answered 30% are hitting the answer. Atrocious, right. When you see that, that’s horrific. Bells went off. We did, you know, the head of intake is gone. New woman who had been the once in a future chair department kicking ass on over 90% as of last week, which means overnight, we have no coverage, from 10-6, you know, but the percentage of primetime hours again, night and day, somebody on the team who had an important role was not doing a great job. We sat down, we counseled them, we’re not saying you’re doing a great job. They were sticking up the cord, two people, one person was given a bunch of warnings, bunch of coaching budget, everything, attitude, they didn’t make it. Somebody else who wasn’t doing great, but followed the coaching, did that, has made it through the rain and is doing a pretty awesome job. So part of it is if you guys jumped the gun, you know if it was like one of those space time continuum movies, and you did something before you allowed that act to finish. The truth is, you’d still have somebody in intake as the right answer was probably take a deep breath, find out what’s going on. Why have you gone from an A employee to a D employee? And rather than firing, figuring, hey, was this old thing there? Now you made that move, can you undo it? I don’t know…
That’s the thing, it’s a really…
And again, I would guess most people want to like academically, no, what the hell are you doing. Move on. That said, I get it. And if the person was fine on intake…
But she’s fine on intake, she’s already been trained. She knows our shit. She could literally be… that’s the correlate. And that’s why I need people to let me know down below, right?
And the answer is, look, we as business owners are not flawless. So I gripe and stuff, people right back, Hey, you didn’t do this. You didn’t speak to this person behind closed doors, you did it publicly, you never should do it, like, those are things I’ve had over the years. I’m far from perfect with this, you know, basically playing the brilliant game of chess that you do that you could make money with her back in intake. That said, you guys effed up on how you handled this, and how do you handle that differently?
Well, you know, if I were to bring it back, I’d get her on the phone, and I’d say, Look, we screwed up. You know, there was an error.
But you didn’t fully screw up…
I’m gonna say there were errors on both sides. You know, we want to…
We jumped the gun, we screwed up. But we, but you were kicking ass. Partly, I think that there’s a there’s a piece missing, which is why was she fucking up? And I know you would have gotten that if you did, was there an exit interview? Was there something, cause unless…
It was quick and clean, like a guillotine, man. I mean I came into work one day, and Dan was like, she’s gone. And I said, Oh, okay, well, I empowered you to do it. So that’s your, you know, that’s, you know, that was your decision to make and you made it, you know. And then there was…
There was power people, they’re gonna make mistakes and look, the question, will that undermine your team if she came back in a different role? Again, I’m going back. Anybody listening to this, who’s like, in the real business world is gonna be like, What are you doing? Stop this and move on. Right? That said, I’ll humor you. I’ve been there. I don’t know if there’s anybody we’ve ever fired. But there was a guy who was just mediocre and kept telling lies, but that’s not the case. Like you need to know when to break your own rules. There’s a rule not to do anything, all of our mentors would say, stay the hell away. That said, I’ll tell you a story that the reason that Brenton runs BluShark right now is that he was a junior marketing guy with somebody else above him. And that person was, and this is years ago, you know, this is before BluShark when it was Price Benowitz, and that person wasn’t doing a great job. How can you promote one person to demote another? I didn’t, it paid off, and I paid, the secret that I’ve learned is if you don’t demote money, that you will generally be fine. That is meaning if somebody is going to take, if you’re saying, hey, look, because what you’re dealing with here is somebody who is good as an employee, but not as good as a manager. You have, that’s essentially the situation you have. And if you’re saying, hey, this person is there, and what I have found is that if you don’t harm the person’s financial take home, and in this case, it may even be a raise, if they were due a raise back to the original job, whatever it is, that then you have an option. And it’s tough. Because part of you cares about your culture, you want to make sure that’s in place, you want to make sure everyone’s going in the same direction. And you’re talking about this in a vacuum, are you undermining the person to fire?
That’s exactly it. That’s exactly, there’s a million, there’s a million variables that go with this. And, you know, some of the things that we’re doing now, we realized in our, with our intake software, we were able to go back to the developer that we have and say we want to add these checkpoints where things have to be yes or no, so we’re gonna eliminate, basically we’re going to real time be doing her checks that she used to do on the weekends. You know, so in that respect, I don’t need somebody to do that.
Well, software, every moment bane of my existence, every time somebody brings up this software, it’s only $60 a seat, it’s gonna cost you $5,000 a month, but you won’t need a person and a half, If I saved the money from every visa, so, yes, but I think you bring up a bigger issue, which comes back to something I struggle with. And then we wrap up with this, which is that when somebody leaves, either they quit, they’re fired, whatever the situation. And they are in a siloed position where leadership, something that I have seen it Price Benowitz in particular, is that when that person leaves, there’s a certain amount of stuff that may not be in the system, or if documented well enough or properly, and that certain things won’t happen. I’ll give you an example. A person left, during COVID lots of things shifted. And we were supposed to be sending out mailers, like jail mail. And there was a period of time when somebody left before we got a bill and said, What the hell is this for? Where we were paying for and receiving mailing addresses and mailers were not going out. And it kills you.
You’re just spending money and not doing anything with it.
Right. But that is the type of thing where part of it is a double switcheroo. Somebody was doing it, and that person moved into leadership, you know what I mean. It’s a moving piece, but part of it is, and this where I throw it back to Jay Ruane the systems genius. Are there things where you can create things that are not people dependent, but firm dependent, and then assign the people to it. And that’s one of the things I’m struggling with. So I’ve always, my old school non Jay Ruane excellence has been what we call manual. I need a new term. Wikis, crises, something. There’s gotta be a something, but the idea that it moves from, this is what we develop and look at when and if somebody leaves the job, to it’s something being done along. And the piece that killed me was that I would like, my goal for my firm is to have the methodology where people are keeping track of best practices and things they do that aren’t life threatening but incrementally add up. So that you don’t end up with that oh shit moment where you realize you’ve been paying for a mailing list for a couple of months and not sending anything out.
Yeah, you know, the thing that I have found is that once you get to, you know, we’ve been at conferences where people like, oh, when you get to X number of people, you need an HR person when, what I have found that once you have silos of legal ops, intake, marketing, that type of thing, it is a good investment, a great investment to have somebody who’s familiar with each or at least two of them. And make their role being an auditor, an auditor role, whose job is to make sure…
There are a couple of jobs out there that I think will scale at some point. Reviews, the other may be auditor. Again, it sucks because I think to do it for yourself is a lot harder than you’re giving it credit for. We’re not all like Jay Ruane level, where we can independently say oh this auditor will be out there. It’s almost like, you know, as you build out your mastermind or whatever project you’re working on… three things. Reviews, you can’t outsource that to an agency it’s gotta be… Second, I would argue is video social media, like you need, as great as you may be at funnels, you need the content. And that’s only gonna be done by somebody sitting in your four walls, right? We have, we have the Systems Auditor, where, again, when you pay somebody externally, and it’s similar to the secret shopper, like Ken Hardison has his ghost calls. The idea that there’s a person outside of the firm checking in, I wonder at some point, if some of those could be combined into a job because frankly, you don’t need a ghost call every day seven hours a day.
Like one of these partial companies where you can have a partial CMO, a partial CFO and all that stuff.
Right, what I’m saying is, hey, as we talk about it, is there a role for auditor/call auditor, somebody who like again, I’m trying to build it out in something more because the more buckets of money you take it from, the less obnoxious an expenses is, right. IF you just saw an auditor, you’re like, you know you should do it. It’s a great idea. I’m probably not going to do it until somebody sells me the widget, Jay Ruane, but if that came, but if you had the potato peeler to go with the Ginsu knife, and said, not only get your systems audited, but they’re going to test each of your intake people, and review a call beyond what you have already, like I have people listening to calls in theory. But if you had a double check on each intake person, where they listen to recorded call on their end, so you know, your double this, you know, what I’m getting at is creating more of a purpose of that person, not putting too much on their plate, but creating a full time job, because you know what, a lot of people wouldn’t want a full time person just for systems, they probably should. But it’s like one of those things that you don’t know you need to get into.
So my interest, so going forward, my thought is I have a person who’s been doing our systems redo. And I think coming out of this, her job is going to be maintaining our systems. And being the auditor, just checking in on people because that way, she can see if the systems are being followed. And sometimes if the systems are not being followed, it’s because we found a better way of doing it, somebody needs to update it. So it kind of goes hand in hand.
And as I think about this, you know what, you know what hit me today, I’ll conclude with this. So we have this kick ass firm ops person who came in from a cluster that I’ve talked about at nauseam, right? Guy falls off the motorcycle to a bad egg to a real problematic person. And as that got handed off, you know, it’s a game of telephone in one respect, and things like jail mail, things like that. And when I came in, this was… it was not up to par for me, we’ll walk it, but it’ll be good next time. You always get this right. Not right now, but we’re going to improve, which is great, better than not. But I would almost argue that what you’re doing with the auditing is somebody who doesn’t know the job. Whereas if imagine if you said to random auditor today, you’re the firm’s ops director, here’s their work thing. And they go through and they have 20 questions, that’s what you want. What are the questions when you know nothing, and then somebody would be like, don’t worry about it, that’s fine. But if some of those are like, Oh, that’s a gaping hole in there. Looking at it with fresh eyes, rather, I mean, the worst part is, I don’t know if you fall into this category as well. Often these things are ignored and looked at when somebody gives notice. And you use notice periods. So the least motivated person who has the least incentive is dusting off those pieces. You know, my dream is to be Jay Ruane, and be able to do that in a proactive real time process.
So I’m going to be applying for a job at Price Benowitz, my starting salary will be $1 million a year. And I will come in and I will be your 1 million knowledge. That is I’ll come in and I will do your systems for you. I’ll come down, you know, once a quarter for 15 minutes, I’ll set up my direct deposit and you guys can have a paycheck for me. Starting next quarter.
Just a quarter million we’ll do, I’m gonna do shank coin if that’s okay.
Yeah, that’s fine. You can just say, I set up after we hung out with Shankman. You can send me ether at Jay Ruane.
Or maybe I’ll create the Price coin. And that’s the part that kills me about about the cyber stuff is like what keeps Jay Ruane from creating his own currency?
Absolutely nothing. I actually thought about releasing all my systems as an NFT, and just seeing if anybody would buy it. And then they could trade around.
I would say yes, but in the circles we travel in, it might be few and far between that are actually getting ether to buy your…
Exactly. So okay, great. That’s going to do it for us. If you want to keep up with Seth, you can do so by following him at all the BluShark Digital SEO and social platforms on YouTube, on LinkedIn, he’s posting some great stuff on LinkedIn lately. So check that out and connect with him on LinkedIn if you can. Yeah, you were gonna say something?
I was gonna say, next show, I want to talk about this. I was spending some time with Ollie Water the Mastermind recently. And it struck me that the creation of the content, there are two bottlenecks, one is the creation, and one is the creation of that content from the raw video. And that I’d like to talk more, you know, I followed your advice, and I got the full time videographer. And it has created lots of contents. But I feel like there’s a missing piece between content and great pop-able content.
Well, it’s almost like two different things. And part of the problem is when you bring a content person in, a videographer, there’s probably six months to nine months of just solid basic law content that you don’t have out there yet that you should tackle first, because that’s going to be evergreen stuff.
Yes. You say that. I don’t disagree. But nothing’s Evergreen. And second, the idea is we’re in a point where I again, that’s why I want to talk about it, you know, with Reels and everything else, you know, that’s blooming and getting eyeballs.
Well, I got something for you. I want you to take it to two lawyers in your office, give it to David, give it to somebody else. I want them to debate on Facebook, or on Instagram, does a straw have one hole or two, and put that out there. And let’s see if we can get people in your office taking sides and see if that gets you some good social stuff. Because that’s the kind of stuff that people are looking for. They don’t really care about updates to Washington, DC Criminal Code.
Gotcha… I can’t wait to hear the Jay Ruane sign off, then.
All right. So if you need to catch up with me, you can do so by checking me out on any of the social platforms. But if you want to follow up with me and some systems like we talked about today, please join my Systemizing Your Law Firm for Growth Facebook group. Otherwise, that’s going to do it for us this week. Please join us next week every Thursday, 3pm Eastern, 12pm Pacific here on Maximum Growth Live. Bye for now.
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