Join Seth and Jay as they discuss how many offices is too many offices, when google stops becoming a destination and becomes a competitor, a tip from Jay about how to utilize Facebook to retarget with reviews and more!
Hello, hello and welcome to the Law Firm Blueprint. I’m wondering host Jay reweighting. From firm flicks and managing partner of Ruane Attorneys, a civil rights and criminal defense firm in Connecticut. With me as always my man down there Seth Price. Seth, hanging out with the pillow mcru This week, but you are a managing partner of Price Benowitz DC, Maryland, Virginia and South Carolina as well as the Grand Poobah of BluShark. Digital, so great to be with you this week in our new environment set the law firm blueprint? How are you liking it so far?
I love it. It is it feels it feels good. You know, it’s, you know, love the fact that we have all these assets under one roof and can bring so much value to our audience.
Yeah, you know, it’s been, it’s been great for me, you know, the group is really starting to take off. You know, before, as it morphed from the systems group into the law firm blueprint, we started seeing a lot more engagement, a lot more people posting ideas. I’m getting out there and aggressively putting stuff out there. Every day. I’ve got posts scheduled out for weeks to come on some systems, but we’ve got some marketing ideas. In fact, this past Friday, we had Maddie from BluShark, talking to us about Google My Business or Google business profile, whatever you call it. And that was a phenomenal 20 minute presentation that we were able to put up really get people to understand the basics of it. And as somebody who’s been in the digital marketing space for years, I don’t think you can undersell the value of Google My Business at this point in 2020, can’t you?
No, not at all. For anybody who’s doing any sort of consumer facing, particularly logo, play, it’s essential that what’s interesting is that I believe a large portion of the monetizable traffic comes through there. But when you look at it, and this dovetails into one of our first topics today, a lot of the traffic that you get is not coming through there. So it’s an interesting back and forth. Target rich traffic, definitely overall traffic, it can be a small percentage by comparison.
So that you know, this isn’t something that we prepped about. But I’m curious, do you think and I’m I’m curious, because I know you’re sort of biases towards digital marketing. Do you think a law firm could survive in 2022 with just a G GNP or GDP and nothing else?
Well, I remember years ago, years ago, but there were people who were sort of playing around with the idea. What if you took your Google Business Profile as such, I want to call it GMB VPN. We’re going to grandfather that name for purposes of the show. So we go over talking about We just liked the name or old school as of like two months ago. But what’s interesting is I remember somebody took and put their avo profile. Now Apple has a whole bunch of issues, please don’t get me started to get you started worse. But the idea that you took a third party maxed out profile, Kevin, super large Avo, with huge domain authority on the site, right, using that lake as your website, knowing that you’re going to see the reviews, there were people messing around with that, to see whether or not because think about most people watching the show, have websites with domain authorities under 30. And you’re competing. So that’s just one crazy, you know, when it goes to let’s say you start with nothing, you know, is there are a place to use a third party website as your primary website on a Google My Business. And you see that more and more when I’m looking at stuff online. People aren’t even providing a website. They want you either booking through Google, calling, chatting with their own website is becoming superfluous. I think law firms have a little bit of ways to go maybe not that long. But it is a interesting question. You know what, maybe we’ll go to the our second topic first, and then we’ll come back to the websites. But that sort of dovetails to what you asked me to show it right.
Because, you know, this week? Well, I definitely want to get back to it, because I saw Rand Fishkin, who is a friend of yours has been on your SEO show, your SEO insider show, I saw him speak pre COVID. I want to say it was November of like, 2017, right after he had left Moz. And he had written his book, and he talked about something, but put a pin in that one. Let’s get to this. So I have been out of the office for this week. I’m still working, but I’m working remotely. I’m working up at the other end of our state. And I’ve got an opportunity, I think, because while we do have one office, it’s outside of the Capitol area. I’ve been up there with my daughter for a ballet intensive program. I’m thinking what could you imagine me and it’s easy to do in the ballet? Is that why you’re smiling? So what I’m thinking is Should I just be opening up a lot more local offices.
And by the way, before you go, I gotta, I gotta jump in with the story. Help. Please don’t do the audience too. So I’m at Disney or Disney Springs, and this is an amphitheater. And there was like a sort of each school gets to come, they get their five minutes of fame. And then they buy $1,000 and Disney products and tickets, and one girl was sick. So there’s one, non svelte 35 year old instructor male is now in the scene with the little girls so that they weren’t missing a person. And sure, she kept missing every thrown. petard, it was like it was such a train wreck. The parents are all there videoing. And here’s this giant person in the middle of the little girl’s doing the routine, not just there. But doing it badly was hysterical. When there was a uniform on it was.
I love it. I love it. Maybe it was me, who knows, I’m not one to shirk from that opportunity to get out there and try something crazy like that. But anyway, so I dropped her off, and I’m driving around Hartford, basically, I got three and a half hours to kill before she’s dismissed for the day, went over the law school went to my Regional Office, which is like 20 minutes away. And I’m driving down and I’m seeing, you know, there are Hey, office for rent office, right, and I’m looking it up. And like, a lot of people around this area, it’s a cheap office for rent. And I’m wondering to myself, with this sort of opportunity now to establish small local offices, you know, conference areas that I can meet with people. If I need to, most of the time, I don’t. How many local offices is too many. You know, if I can I should I bring it around my my major area instead of being right in the middle with all the other lawyers and hit all those suburbs? Should I be doing that? Because I can easily do that for probably as as expensive as one kick ass office in the middle of town, I can have a whole bunch of regional offices surrounding the surrounding the major city. And I’m thinking to myself, maybe that’s the play, but then I’m…
…like, I just put there a bunch of factors. Right. And I, you know, what I would say is, the first thing is you don’t want to see non genuine, right? Google’s trying to they want a real piece. And we saw this with spammy listings. Yeah, if you’ve got the number one rule is do not just sign a contract with Regis and say, oh, there’s seven offices in my area, because you’re done. So the next question is how many I look, we’ve talked a lot and we presented a Matisse presentation on proximity. All of these different elements that we’ve talked about both on the show and outside the show are that proximity is huge, you get less bang for your buck from the waffle. So yes, more is needed. And is important. But I think that there’s also weird and again, this is the same, it comes down to money balling value. Because if you’re in a competitive place, and office alone doesn’t do much good. Everybody in that area has 100 reviews. So to me, Look, you have more than 100 reviews, germane offices, but it is hard to get 100 reviews at each of 12 offices, right? And and then if you do that, and you assume you’re not doing multiple reviews per person, that you’re going to put every port app and client, then you’re sort of taking your foot off in your main office, and you might have other people pass, which you don’t want either. Right. So it’s I think it’s a combination of I’ve shorted again, there are lots of ways to perceive this, but a, b and c offices, a offices primary office want to win, or at least be competitive on the review count. Secondary offices are ones that might be, you know, a tier two town for you. And the third could be places where you’re sort of truly are Moneyball with population and not a lot of competition. The advantage there is five to 10 reviews on a smaller area bite might move the needle, the issue that you run into is very often you’re like, well, that’s great. And those those smaller areas are nice, but I want the areas with higher density population. But that’s where the review counts are higher. So it’s, you know, again, no easy answer. If it was it would be there. But I think that just like many things, it’s, you know, you’d have the idea. We talked about this a lot, you would need both audit off air, you then sort of put that in the hibernation for whatever period of time it is make sure that you genuinely want cases there. Right? Is there money there? If it’s a fee for service? Is there is there is it a good place for cases? And then is there enough population? Once you do it? Yeah, sure. And additional pin on the map is great. I think that like many things, you get too greedy. Anything that becomes your URI or people with targets are back when you get too much it because it can it can get to the point where somebody could say, hey, this doesn’t look natural. And when that happens Whether it be something manual from Google, or whether it’s the algorithm picking it up, you don’t want to do something outside of standard deviation, you could get away with it. But that’s where the risk comes in. And when it’s your main core business, I’m always a bit conservative at the same time, we want to push the you want to push the envelope.
Okay, so So that leads me to a follow up question. And this is something that we’ve been debating internally, with my marketing people I’m curious to get your perspective on it is, is how many route reviews are enough? And let me set up the question because I know you’re answering the initial responses, as many as you can get like this is we have a…
…course but no, but…
Should you should you look for you find who the next best person in your market is? And you want to double their reviews? Do you want to, you know, 150% of their reviews? So you’re they have 100? You got 150? Do you want to do like, how many because because you could then take those resources and apply them to reviews and secondary locations, we can open up obviously 1000 Personal public profile page, since we are lawyers, and Google allows that you can direct some of them to that so that if you’re moving yourself around, you can establish, hey, I’m gonna change the name of my public profile page to my firm, because I’m establishing a beach and, and boom, you’re at 75 reviews, right off the jump. So is there you know, if you weren’t, if you were counseling me, saying, Hey, I see that in your market, we’ve got people with 190 and 115 reviews, and you’re at you’re at 75, I’d like to see you get to what number in the next year would be, you know, if they stayed the same?
Do you want to be out of voice? Right? What is you want to be the most? The second would be or, you know, you want to be the most play a lot be the guy. Okay. 802? I mean, this this some of the subjective.
Right? I know that’s, and I understand subjective. That’s why I’m asking.
What I’m saying is, there are people where they have like 1000 reviews, and the next guy has like 25, I think there can be issues where it looks like it’s gamified I get, I’m not the right person, I love to focus group that and find out what people think on that. But you know, you have 805 star reviews, it’s never going to hurt you. But to me, it’s a waste. I think the better question I get, and I see a lot is I talked to like John Fisher, loving, he has so many reviews for his market, that he could be there for four lifetimes before somebody else catches up. Right? What I would love to see is if people love John, I’d love him to open, whether it’s New York City, whether it’s Westchester, open an office, and use that love to generate reviews, because the plate, every incremental review he has right now isn’t going to move the needle meaningfully for him. But if he took the next children fame, let’s say he’s chapter 50, going for 500 reviews, leave 250 in upstate New York and do the next 250 In another place. And I think that the key is number one, I think is to have the most, again, assuming that you’re within the same star ranking. If you’re within it, you know, as you gain views over time, very often you’re going to get statistically some crazies, and or you’ll mess up a case or two. So when you have a four night or four, eight, does that matter compared to a five out? If you’re buying on Amazon? Do you care if somebody has a slightly lower rating, but 5000 reviews versus the person at 130. And they’re perfect. You know, I saw this early on with TripAdvisor, that when you look at a smaller property that has statistically lower number of reviews, any proprietor could go and really solicit 75 reviews over the course of the year with the people that he upgrades and every time he gave an upgrade, he gets a review, you’re gonna, whereas you can’t do that if it’s the value Westin with 50,000 views. So there are eight. So going back to your question, I think that you want to get the most I’m not sure that from a Moneyball point of view, you want to blow it away, in the sense that if Jay Wayne has doubled the next guy in town, not that other people don’t catch up, I have been in DC, that competitor of mine has always tried to catch up to us in DC, and we’ve kept a cushion. But I’ve also said, Hey, we have these other offices, and we have a unique thing because our service is done, you know, in essence, not in the old school way where they’re going to this office. Well, it’s a Virginia file. Where do we ask for the review at the end of the case? Or where do we encourage somebody to to leave a review, wanting to make sure that there are places where somebody else is all fired up in one of my second or third tier offices where I’m like, You know what, I’m not going to be number one, I’m okay with that. Let’s be a solid two, and then build the review somewhere else because there I can take the next 150 Instead of trying to fight for that one and open to other offices and have meaningful numbers. To answer your last question, is there a place for just sort of a throwaway office with five to 10? Reviews? The way Google is pushing us with localization? The answer is yes. I don’t love that many out there. At the same time, if you if you have an opportunity, where you can read something cost effectively, in a way that works, and get a handful of reviews, five to 10, that may have benefits with LSAs, it may it’ll have benefits on visibility, assuming that it’s not too close, because I think that’s where the issue is, who will continuously always, you know, they brought the frog 70s, they brought it in, at some point, they’re they they hate, it’s not a great user experience, people don’t really need the closest lawyer, they don’t like a pizza, they actually want the person who’s best suited for them, it may move out. So I wouldn’t be too reactionary. But an additional office, especially we’re not having reusable moving. You know, I love it.
You know, one of the things that we did earlier in the year to develop some of our strategy was actually look at the top 100 cities and towns in our state, and actually kind of came up with a review count of the top of the people in the three pack to see what opportunity existed, we identified a particular area that I think we’re going to go after next, and we’re looking for space there. Because…
We’ve looked at that if somebody says How competitive is the market, that’s one of those areas, and of all the competitors have seven under tonight under reviews, they’re showing up in the three pack. That’s going to take resources, well beyond, you know, the old school, oh, we’ll do a year of SEO, and you’ll be there. Those reviews are added. And I just I’ve been thinking mentioned a prior show, we got to come to Jesus with it with a great firm that was like why are we moving faster? Like the organic was crushing it? But they had done reviews in four or five months? Not a single review? I like it’s a combination of all these things, you know, will the proximity expand a contract? I’m sure it will some stuff be paid versus free? Never goes to the good direction for organic. But all those are factors. But I think that the what you’re doing and studying what’s they’re looking for the ad because proximity is the cause celeb with that shorter piece, it does give you the opportunity where if you’re getting box data somewhere, find where there is opportunity, right?
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. So going back to something that we talked about about Rand, when I saw him speak at SMX East A while back, he was talking about how like 83% of Google’s searches, never leave the results page, because they’re there hoping to serve up that answer. And so really, I might I might be thinking of as the competitor next door as the person I’m competing with, but really, I’m competing with Google. Now in the last space, people will dive a little deeper, given the nature of the problems or magic, if you’re maybe not.
At the top there there LSAS. They’re not going to the website. Right, they’re not going there for a lot of different they’re more what Rand is saying exactly right. And I’ve been talking about it, maybe that as long as him but yes, everything Google’s doing from flights to and even if they’re not, even if you eventually do leave the site, they’re getting a piece of the action. Right. So like, you know, for travel, you know, it’s not talked about a lot. But if you put your dates and a city and our hotel in, it’s amazing to see the 10 different people who are serving up a room for one given night, I saw this in Vegas with there was a pillow bootcamp. And it was downtown and the conference rate was like $20 for a room. And through looking through the Google search found that snap travel was at $49 a night, paying the butt to deal with them. It’s a I think it was sold to one of the big boys, you know, Expedia, Travelocity or one of these guys, but it’s a text only reservation system. God forbid anything goes out, you know, changing a name on a reservation takes an act of God. But when it comes to a cheap room, and again, this was all done through the Google interface directly from there to chat, which was just amazing.
See, I stay in the Rain Man sweet when I’m in Vegas, you know, because I’m a player. So that’s just what is but the you know, folks, what we want to talk about today is, you know, this whole conversation was sparked by Manny’s presentation last Friday night, in the in the in the Law Firm Blueprint group. And we actually have one coming up this week that you could watch, and it’s all about how to use social media effectively. It’s something that I’ve given in the past, but it’s called how social will save your law firm. And I really think you should tune into that and sort of seeing we’ll talk about it on next week’s show some of the takeaways that I think that you can get from it. But one of the things that I want to talk about is an idea today set that we have been using tied into social that has really been proving dividends. And it actually came up when there was some conversation in the law firm blueprint group about what is one marketing tactic or technique or trick that you can use. And what we’re doing is that So we’re utilizing the Facebook, targeting pixel, that once a person hits our website and then bounces and leaves, we’re actually serving them a carousel ad of reviews. So they’ll see five to 10, Google reviews that we’ve screenshotted. And we put them up just as images. We’re not changing them, we’re giving them the review in the look and feel that Google serves them up. And it’s really proved amazing to us how much engagement those carousel ads and setting up a carousel ad is not that hard. But if you target people on your website, you’re basically giving them social proof that, hey, look, you look at this website. Now look at all of these people that love this website. And of course, you get to pick which reviews you put up there. And it’s been a phenomenal thing to sort of move the needle, because inevitably we get, hey, I keep reading your reviews. And and it seems you know, we’re talking a lot about reviews today. That’s making a difference. So that’s a little.
I love. Two things that I love together. Right? It’s retargeting and social proof. So that’s, that’s awesome. Let’s look, I think partly, it’s just a clever ad. I remember writing way back in the day, when we this is going back to the late 90s. So film, we created something that was an ad that was dynamic, and sort of like was was was was a was a gift that kept moving. And it was amazing that they’re just being slightly ahead of the curve on artwork, what a difference that can be made.
You know, it’s it’s really amazing. The cool thing about those carousel ads is that you can actually use the video in them. So that will autoplay. So if you filmed some of your clients, giving a testimonial, put those videos in there, you know, edit them down to be 15 seconds, or, you know, and then give them a chance to click on the link to get to your site and back again, where they can see the whole thing. That would be a great way of doing it. Now I’m thinking that’s something that I’m going to delegate to my team to sort of get into place because we have a whole bunch of films, reviews.
I got something you remember just just an idea. Remember a few weeks back when those game shows this quiz game shows that we’re within the app became really huge. What if you took and I’ve been experimenting a lot we have a super new social media person in house at BluShark is doing great work. Me, my dog ,like, you know, it was a young a young whippersnapper with a ring light is doing
First First of all, you just use the word whippersnapper?
I needed to make sure I didn’t use something pejorative.
Just you just became old you dude. I’m sorry. But that’s where you are.
Right? So it’s somebody who’s not me who’s figuring this out. So what I’m thinking is what if it was because to have somebody giving a review and understanding what that is in context of that it’s tough. But almost like having a host, the Carson Daly of sorts, that sort of introducing it, the that that type of presenter was what I was thinking about was not a bad thing.
You know, you could do you could go on cameo you could buy, buy a promotion from Bruce Buffer, let’s get ready to rumble. Hear that, let’s hear the reviews and have that as the first thing in the carousel and push it through because I assume oh, I think you can hire him for businesses, a couple of those people on cameo you can hire to pitch your product, I have a product that I’m dying to get somebody if anybody’s in the food service business, and can help me put together a mail order product of pretzels, I have an idea that I think could take off if marketed properly. So please let me know in the comments or reach out to me via DM, because I would love to see if we can market this product. Because I think it would just take off. You know, so.
I don’t want to we will be talking about reviews for a lot of time. I love this whole piece. I have one final topic for today, which was ironically, it comes down to this but it sort of is the other piece of the puzzle. Right? So you’re taught we started the conversation talking about offices and where to put pins on the map. But I got a really interesting question today from from an old friend who has two websites for two different markets, a West Coast market, an East Coast market, and they had an exact match URL on the west coast. So when they started the East Coast, they or vice versa, they couldn’t use that URL for both. One was keyword stuff. The other was Brandon. And when they came and said I want to now I have West Coast and East Coast. I want a second East Coast location. But that didn’t you know what, what do you do? And like here’s a game of chess, right? So you know, you can’t use the West Coast keyword stuffed URL, because that would make no sense for a random East Coast town. So then you’re sort of left with Okay, let’s layer that inside of that branded East Coast URL. Easy ish, right there. few issues with that one, presumably, you’ve put all of your keywords for your main location on the main homepage, wherever you go next, it’s going to be one page off. Now, as the price Bennewitz site will show, we actually ended up with nothing on the homepage. So it’s agnostic, and that all of the love of the exact match is DC, Maryland, Virginia injury lawyer is one off the homepage. So if you had a Google My Business, you’re going straight to that, we get all the love for press going to the top level Price Better with .com coming down, it takes a lot of effort to do that. And so it will always be second tier and that you don’t get the extra benefit of being that new location on the homepage. But the only other alternative is a third website, and dividing and conquering is tough enough, going to three, you know, you know, you’re starting to play a really uphill battle right now. So assume for a second, you’re like, Okay, I get my my third office, right third location on office. But third location will work within the branded URL. But you know, that it’s always going to be so if it’s hyper competitive, you’re gonna have an issue I have I lost your I gotcha.
No, no, you got me. And I’m wondering if they could take your approach with Price Benowitz. And so they’ve got homepage now. Could you create basically a new agnostic homepage? And and then have to do could you…
But but you’re killing the golden goose? Patient? And that’s, that’s these this is sort of why you know, you are now hitting on the issue, that everything you do has a reaction? Right. So okay, you have a branded site with city a there you want city B, right? And yes, that can be one off the homepage. But you’re now you don’t have that power. Now, it’s better than having both off the homepage. But if somebody goes to the homepage, they’re not going to see that. So yes, you can direct them there. But there’s a cost to it. Does that make sense? Meeting? Yeah, that somebody for that for that network location, who gets to the homepage of that site sees a non geocentric for them, it’s fine for GMPs, because you can put the link to that page. If you do your SEO, right, people will go straight to that page. But and you can even get a vanity URL that goes directly to that sub page, right. But there’s some website itself, if somebody has directed Hey, go use this firm, they’re going to get to a main URL, that is a feature that you can minimize it.
So, so there’s that then come back to the question. And looking at the numbers, how many of their? How many of their clients come? I’m going to say it predominantly digitally? But are they coming through direct referral? Are they coming through paid? Are they coming through organic discovery, that people that they can actually convert? I think he’s gonna make the make the bigger, which is…
Why I was saying beginning to show a smaller number, we’re coming through the Google My Business, but that may have been a higher percentage of revenue, versus organically. So the the basically just throwing that out there, and you’re always there’s always a, you know, a pull in a tug, or a pro and a con, as to what to do. And then the next sort of the million dollar question is, is there a point where you wrap in the West Coast URL, get rid of that sort of spammy, exact match world that you have, in theory, your local shouldn’t be too badly affected, because the the local is still gonna be going to that same page, in theory, but its risk, and also as an agency. And there, I always use this analogy, which is, when you do a renovation of a home or an apartment, there are things that you do if you live there, where you might not pull a permit. But if you’re doing it for somebody else, something goes wrong. Your your acid, they could say, hey, yeah, just get it done. Cheap. Oh, there’s a fire, you didn’t pull the electrical permit. Like, it’s almost impossible to waive the liability because whatever goes wrong is on you. And that’s one of those issues where you want to take Blackhat risks, or gray hat risks. That’s one thing, but as an agency, no matter what you do, pretty good side their name and blood. The moment shit goes wrong. It’s on you. And you have that back and forth. That That wasn’t said this was nothing bad here, right? It’s just when you’re folding something in, we have it we have times when people say I lost my partner, I need a new URL. I can’t use it. And there are times where the cops find it. Are there times when there’s a dip and it comes back? Every, every single time you move a website, a lot of times, it’s great. And there are times where it dips. And sometimes it comes back in two weeks. And sometimes it comes back in two months. But dragons can be scary types.
It’s interesting. It is, it’s scary times, and it’s something that you need to really always be paying attention to, unfortunately, you know, I, you bring it up, and they don’t teach this stuff in law school. But if you’re here listening to it, obviously, you’re paying attention to these things now. So you could, you can go through some of the problems that we’ve had, see some of the solutions that we’ve devised, I wonder, I wonder, and this might be something that you and I do in the law firm blueprint, let’s get a very clean generic law, domain name, pick a location, and do absolutely everything black hat, we can think of, to rank that as quickly as we can, and then stop and see how long it stays. That I think that’d be a heck of a case study to sort of see what happens where we, you know, it’s, we’re not necessarily looking to actually make real money off of it. But to see how long it is before it gets smacked down, because you know, the smackdown will come.
I’ll conclude that we were you see that a lot is the reputation management space, right, there’s a bad article about somebody, and you can’t get it removed through other means, and you need to sort of push it down. The way is one of the top ways to do that is to find social sites, and then, you know, you don’t really care for spamming Twitter, people will do that, to bring stuff down. And if it doesn’t work, you haven’t lost anything. That’s, you know, a great place to watch. You know, as a lot of my colleagues as spam works. It’s just not something where the risk we’re willing to live.
Oh, no, I agree. I wouldn’t I wouldn’t do it. I’m saying, as a case study be kind of interesting to see, if you did that, how, how the search engines would treat that how, you know, all, you know, all of those things would be sort of, I mean, it’d be a multi year study, probably. But I don’t want to get too far. I mean, we can go down the rabbit hole of cool ideas that we could just work on that just cost money and don’t really actually help us move the needle.
Those those cases, a lot of people do this, right. And people do all sorts of stuff. And that’s how, when you see you know, the different sites that come out on local, that’s how people do it. You know, going back to Blumenthal, we had we had one cat who was in Spanish, one test place, it was a jeweler it had been buffalo in the suburbs, not near the city center, you always like use that as his test kitchen and other people, you know, adding, you know, there was a study that just came out, do exact uniqueness to terms or exact match terms in your GMB or Google business profile. Do they make a difference? And, you know, according to all the latest data, the answer is yes. Is it less powerful than it was pre proximity? Absolutely. But it’s still a factor that, you know, that Google and that is part of the issue of what they deal with. Were those terms are indicative of somebody who has a good answer for something right at the same time it can be used to manipulate. Absolutely.
Okay, folks, that’s a lot for our show. We went over but I think both Seth and I are a little excited about the Law Firm Blueprint and what it means for all of us. Of course, if you want to catch us, we are live every Thursday 3pm Eastern 12pm Pacific, here on Facebook on the Law Firm Blueprint blueprint page. It’s streamed to multiple groups on online, the mastermind experience group, our group, our law firm blueprint group, gets the show. If you are a manager of a lawyer centric group and you would like to stream our show in for your members, please reach out we’d be happy to do that. But for now we will sign off I am Jay Ruane. He is Seth Price. Thank you for being with us here at the law firm blueprint. You have the blueprint now. Go build something great. Bye for now.