Seth & Austin Irabor: How to Hack Pay-Per-Click Ads

BluShark Digital 0:00

Welcome to the SEO Insider with your host, Seth Price, founder of BluShark, taking you inside the world of legal marketing and all things digital.

Seth Price 0:11

Welcome, everyone. We are so thrilled to have Austin here today. I got the pleasure of meeting Austin at the Seven Figure Agency Summit in Miami. And it appears that Austin and his company have taken the internet legal PPC space by storm. Thank you for being here, Austin.

Austin Irabor 0:30

Hey, man, thanks for having me. It’s great.

Seth Price 0:32

So look, you know, they talk about, within the Seven Figure world, a lot about niching and you chose: “Okay, let me see the most competitive paid space niche and I’m gonna jump right in.” So talk to me a little bit about, you know, your perspective on paid search and how you view the very competitive terrain.

Austin Irabor 0:54

Yeah, absolutely. So when we talk about personal injury, I think it’s really important that law firms get creative, and that PPC managers get creative. What’s happening right now is, or what’s been happening for the past 20-30 years, is that prices are bid up to the point where not even the big players that are spending all the money are actually making any money. It’s a slot machine. And every signing that you have on the intake side is just you subsidizing your slot holes. So if we can figure out, you know, a creative strategy to generate leads at scale, where your cost per lead, instead of being $2,000-3,000… your cost per signing, instead of being $2,000-$3,000 is like $700/$500. Now, you’re, you know, now you’re making money even on a 1530, right. You’re tripling your money, or quadrupling your money on a 1530. So you’re doing nothing but making money.

Seth Price 1:52

Right, and I think the perspective I’ve seen in a lot of markets, you wish you could get them for $2,000 a piece. There are bargains, you can, but it is, you know… We are now seeing more and more markets, where the numbers have just gotten so crazy that you wonder… I always use the example, you’re working for Google. But is it somebody who’s just whale hunting? That, you know, are you seeing certain markets where you’re essentially breaking even on the mundane cases and having to sort of like bank on X number of five-star cases in order to make it worthwhile.

Austin Irabor 2:24

I’m seeing small firms, like what we’re literally doing is turning small and mid sized firms into paper mills, which is what they want to be. Where they’re making money on every signing, because the cost per signing is so low. And it’s actually easier to do in the bigger competitive markets where there are more eyeballs than it is in somewhere like Butte, Montana where nobody lives. So if we talk like strictly numbers, Florida, we’ve got like… I’m literally looking at this right now, Florida, we’ve got a client for the past four months. They’ve averaged $743 per signing, they’ve signed over 100 with us. $652, $833, $682, $789 last month. Georgia, a very big firm that we would all know if I name drop them right now. Last month $682 for signing. Texas, a smaller firm…

Seth Price 2:26

Look, my question, Austin, is… You talk about a holistic approach. Those are awesome numbers. What is it, you know, philosophically, that, you know… How do you view this? Or what’s the, you know, this is something that you seem to be, you know, onto something. Talk to me a little bit about your approach, how you break this stuff down?

Austin Irabor 3:42

Yeah, sure. So I look at three KPI pillars, we’re not just responsible for a low cost per lead, we want to be responsible for low cost per lead, a high contact rate, and then a high conversion rate on the sales side. That’s where these numbers are coming from. And so on the conversion side, or how we’re getting such a good low cost per lead, is that we’re not going after the the typical stuff that lawyers go after, which is “Personal Injury Attorney near me.” So we’re using audiences and, you know, behavioral markers in these audiences that are indicative of a person who’s been in a car accident. So instead of going for something obvious and waiting for somebody to do something where all the competition is… There are behaviors that people exhibit and searches that they make, where it’s clear that they’ve most likely been in a car accident. And if we can target those people at that point, then we’re turning a $200 click into a $10 click. So that’s part one. And then part two is analyzing the phone number pool of the law firm. So you own a personal injury law firm, correct?

Seth Price 4:46

Correct, Price Benowitz.

Austin Irabor 4:47

How many phone numbers do you guys have in your number pool?

Seth Price 4:51

A gazillion.

Austin Irabor 4:52

And how many of those phone numbers are marked as spam likely?

Seth Price 4:56

Very, very good point. We try to keep it as minimal as possible, but because we’re not making as much outbound from those, we don’t, you know, we care about the ones who are making outbound calls to… a number pool for outbound is what you’re talking about?

Austin Irabor 5:07

Yeah, number pool for outbound.

Seth Price 5:10

So the number pool for outbound, yes, being very quick, I see this with the mass tort firms, spending time and attention to make sure you’re white labeling those numbers.

Austin Irabor 5:19

Well you also have a number pool for QC. Correct. So people are coming back, and they’re following up with clients or doing chases… Yep. Okay. So there are tons of different algorithms out there that are private or semi private, there’s Nomorobo, there’s Hiya. But then there’s also T Mobile, there’s AT&T, these companies have their own algorithms. And they’re basing spam likely on the the length of a conversation, and whether or not those phone calls are being red button. So if you’re, if your people are in chase mode, or they’re chasing down, you know, a signature, or they’re running QC, it’s very likely that some of those numbers in your number pool are spam likely. So we go in, and we analyze that for the client. And we make sure that the client has the cleanest numbers, and we run the remediation on those numbers, we’re not relying on the client to do it. So we’re taking the reins there. And then finally, on the sales side, we want to influence your intake team’s ability to sell. You know, most personal injury firms don’t have a single salesperson on their front line, they have a bunch of intake people, they have a bunch of people that are survey takers. If we can help the team become like killers with what we know about our campaign, and turn them into people that can turn a no into a yes, or take a person that’s, you know, 7 out of 10 likely to sign into a 10 out of 10 in that one initial phone call, then we can greatly reduce the cost per sign and greatly elevate the sale rate for the client. And that’s how we’re getting those numbers, by taking a holistic approach, turning everything into a number. And where we’re going with this, and where I think the industry is going, is applying AI to the conversation and really digging in to not only the scripting, which AI is going to help a great deal with, but then adherence to that scripting, and developing a smart script that essentially evolves over time to know, you know, the perfect thing to say to a certain client from a certain source that’s been in a certain accident that is of a certain gender, demographic, etc. That’s where things are going.

Seth Price 7:28

And where, do you actually control? Do you have your own intake, or are you training the individual intakes for the different law firms that you work with?

Austin Irabor 7:35

Yeah, good question. So we don’t do intake to the point where we’re, you know, grabbing your rep forms and signing people up. What we do have is essentially follow up assistance. So we get the same pool of clients that you’re getting, you know, on the form submissions and stuff like that, we load it into a dialer. And then I have people that I’ve trained. And so all they’re doing is they’re warm transferring the leads that you already have, so that your contact rate goes up even more.

Seth Price 8:03

So you’re actually doing the, you’re doing the chase internally and then transferring back to the firm.

Austin Irabor 8:09

Yeah, we actually, we assist the firm in the chase, we don’t take on any firms that don’t want to do any chasing at all, though.

Seth Price 8:16

Right, meaning you’re just, it’s not like, you’re talking about someone who’s called, spoken to them, but not signed at time of conversation, or ones where it’s a form and then you have to get a hold of them. What do you mean “to chase?”

Austin Irabor 8:26

The latter, form submission, and then we get a hold of them to help the client increase their contact rate?

Seth Price 8:35

Are you playing primarily the google PPC game? Or are you doing paid social, like, what’s the mix of what you find effective?

Austin Irabor 8:44

Yeah, so what we find effective is using inventory that is not search. So it could be display, it could be alternative inventory. It can be data that we leased, where the behavior is, you know, indicative of person who’s probably been in a car accident. And then we offer up some kind of informational offer that is sponsored by a law firm. And then the law firm has the, you know, you’re basically saying, Yeah, I want the law firm to contact me, obviously. That’s what we’re, that’s our play. And that’s how it works.

Seth Price 9:19

So it’s primarily a paid social play where you get better demographics, not search, which is super expensive, but maybe as far as to a cost per actual click, but you’re basically looking at the environment, figuring out who’s more likely to be injured than others, putting your place out there, having a lead magnet, and then bringing them in, which I assume is why you need to have some sort of amazing chase because I know from personal experience, getting social to get the phone to ring is one thing, getting the phone to ring with monetizable calls is obviously the ultimate, you know, one two combination.

Austin Irabor 9:54

I never said social, we don’t use social. I mean, I don’t like social for that reason. Actually, I mean, people forget that they even filled out a form on social. So it’s no good. But if a person is, I mean, we could use, you know, we could look at Google PPC. But there’s all kinds of other PPC out there, there’s, the thing about digital marketing is that digital marketers are, essentially users of tools. And if they don’t know what tool to use, then they, they’ll never gain the traffic, you know, from that particular place. So one thing that sets us apart, what makes us a little bit different, is that we’re willing to dive into any audience. We’ll try out, you know, any alternative inventory that we can to see if it has legs. And then on top of that, we want to see what’s the technique going to be for that particular kind of inventory? And is it something where we can get the cost per lead down to such a low rate that all it’s going to come down to salesmanship, then let’s, let’s help the client with that salesmanship. And then they’re off to the races.

Seth Price 10:55

Great. It’s really interesting, I have not heard somebody who’s taken such a sort of interesting, holistic approach, and a lot of people that are playing paid social game, which I have not fully gotten, so it’s interesting to hear that that’s not where you are in the paid search game is the traditional paid search game, obviously very expensive. And ROI, you know, it’s sort of more traditional, again, I’m gonna take you back, you’re talking about a holistic approach. It sounds like it’s a combination of, you know, inexpensive, but targeted inventory, converting with particularly good sales techniques that has funneled things to the point where you can get that ROI, because it is a margin game, right? It’s everything that we’re doing here is about trying to find somebody at that point of need. Give me examples, I think you learn a lot from this, what are some of the sort of lessons learned or things that you saw that didn’t work? Like, what are things that sort of, conventional wisdoms that you hear out there all the time, where you’re like, at least for you, you’re like, This is not something that I love.

Austin Irabor 12:04

You mean in terms of tactics, or…

Seth Price 12:07

I’m trying to stay away from your secret sauce saying, what have you tried and said, hey, people love this, but I just don’t get it.

Austin Irabor 12:13

You know what, in I believe 2020, was it 2021 or 2022, we were for, I guess, a couple of months, the number one pay per call company in like the nation or something like that. So we had some pretty good success, not just with this program, but with another program before that. And one thing that really does not work is selling phone calls, selling a two minute call, things like that didn’t work for us, it was so problematic, I can see how it could work for the law firm. But it didn’t work, it doesn’t work on the agency side very well, it wasn’t profitable. And it really incentivizes bad behavior on the agency side. So I just didn’t want to go there, to the point where, you know, you’re going to have to start looking out, looking for leads, or phone calls or generating them from places that are not super relevant, or where the lead itself is not completely engaged in the process. So I think buying phone calls, I think buying leads from vendors from directories, I think it’s old hat, I think it’s tired. And I get a lot of emails from these companies that you would know, where they’re like, Hey, if you got some leads, you know, that have fallen on the floor that you don’t want, we’ll take them and we’ll try to sell them on consignment, so that you don’t lose money on them and stuff like that. So I would say don’t buy leads right now, unless you’ve just got a huge budget, and you gotta get rid of the money. Everything’s going toward a full end to end client acquisition deliverable. So I don’t know if that answers your question.

Seth Price 13:52

Basically, you’re seeing, I get that, you know, the space that you’re talking about, which is what, as an agency, right, I run a digital agency. The most frustrating pieces is the stuff that you don’t control, right, what you control you can take care of. But as great as your coaching may be, you may have the most amazing chase in the world, if you bring it back to a place that’s going on empty years, that’s not, it’s not going to make money. And that’s where I’ve seen sort of that, you know, I feel like you see this in a lot of areas of business, where you start doing one thing, you expand it to do more. And then you’re like, well, I might as well just complete the circle. And that’s where it’s been really interesting to see stuff like Arizona and Utah with their laws changing, somebody like yourself was like, well, “F” it, I don’t want to deal with these lawyers anymore, I’ll just keep it full circle and actually either run the cases or at least sell a compensable case at the other end. That’s what a lot of mass tort players have moved towards, you know, how do you deal with it when you’ve drilled down on your, on the audience, on getting cheap, or cost effective clicks, on having a chase mechanism that really does a great job. But you’re not, it’s not getting closed at the other end. How do you, what are the band aids that you use to try to ameliorate that situation?

Austin Irabor 15:12

Yeah, that’s a great question. So what the first thing that I did was I put together a cheat sheet based on the conversations that I was able to listen to. From our follow up side, it’s been a huge asset to be able to do that. Listen to the demeanors and the objections from people that come from the different sources that we have, I think that’s really missing in digital marketing, like as a whole is conversational analytics, and that kind of coaching. It just, most marketing companies aren’t doing it, they’re just delivering leads and walking away. So that’s number one. Number two, I brought in one of the foremost experts in intake coach to rub on what we’re doing, and then deploy, I deploy her when clients are having trouble. So not only that, but she also has a QuickStart Video branded for us. So she goes in and tells her clients, this is how you’re going to do it. This is what to say, this is you know, the demeanor to have, et cetera. So pre coaching. And then I also have a basically an interview series with my most successful clients that just basically go into, you know, what it is they’re doing right now, what they’re seeing working, we’re working on a essentially a NetFly client, like mastermind kind of group, like a very close group, where they’re not, you know, that they’re not gonna be intersecting with each other, you know, somebody from Florida might as well tell somebody from Arizona, what they’re doing and what’s working and things like that. It’s just a networking opportunity.

Seth Price 16:39

And you work on markets, do you have a market exclusive model?

Austin Irabor 16:43

Not necessarily, no, I mean, if you want to be exclusive with NetFly, you just need to have the budget to, you know, not be competed with, there’s an upper limit to everything. So once we kind of reach that, ethically, we can’t just keep selling it.

Seth Price 16:57

How did you get into this? How did you find yourself in the middle of the legal Personal Injury space?

Austin Irabor 17:03

Oh, yeah. So I was an athlete my whole life, I was a college athlete. I played rugby, in school in LA, and we started traveling, made captain and all that good stuff. And I had two options, I could either go play for money, you know, overseas, or whatever. Or I could do what I was already doing, which was get into digital marketing, my original idea was just go get a job at it, I was decent at it, I was paying my way. I wouldn’t say pay my way through school with it, but that’s how I ate, right. Um, but I just decided I didn’t want to be one of those old sports guys that still, you know, coaching and is in his 50s and that’s really all he knows and stuff like that. So got rid of that, turned out that my my rugby coach was also really good friends with a politician in Colorado. And my knowledge of what I was doing for small businesses locally, I was able to translate that to a campaign for governor. It didn’t win, but I learned a lot. I was able to spend a lot of somebody else’s money in a really short period of time. And the campaign actually, I don’t know if it still holds it, but it had the record at the time for the most financially efficient campaign for governor like ever at the time. It did leverage, like celebrity endorsement and stuff like that. And we were able to make a music video with some I think Wyclef and Snoop or something like that. But that helped. But anyway, I came back home, you know, politics was not for me. So I came back home, started working in the startup space here in SoCal, worked with some startups, helped a couple get to the Inc 5000. Had a CEO go to the Forbes 40 under 40. The only downside to the startup world is that you can do everything right, everyone can do their job, everyone can crush it, and you can still run out of money. You know, people can’t raise the money or supply chain issues, whatever. So I wasn’t cool with you know, I wasn’t cool with that, I didn’t want to keep doing it. And so I started NetFly. And about three years after that, and I decided to focus on lawyers, it was either going to be lawyers or you know, plastic surgeons, things like that. I wanted white collar individuals that I could speak their language, they could speak mine. And, you know, we could, I could help them and they could pay me for that. And so it just evolved into this where, I also come from a field philosophy background, I have a bachelor’s in philosophy, and I try to apply it and not just you know, and so I said, let’s take a look at this from a bird’s eye view, what’s going on what’s missing? And if you really look at the skill sets inside of these personal injury firms, a lot of them don’t have salespeople at all. They don’t know how to turn a no into a yes. All they have is people that can answer your phone, do a survey and say we’d love to sign you up. And typically if a person says yeah, no, I’m not super interested in that. They don’t really know what to do. They’re just like, well, this is our phone number if you change your mind or something like that. So I said, You know what? This industry, yeah, this niche needs salesmanship. And if you add it you can get leads from like anywhere. And you can just package it to get clients like really good results. And that’s how we’re able to get sub 1k CPA in a place like California.

Seth Price 20:24

That’s not easy. You know, California has its competitors that come. So that’s awesome. Have you noticed a compare and contrast between, you know, have you done stuff outside of straight, you know, auto, med mal… have you tried any other areas like that, or have you pretty much stuck to the bread and butter of PI?

Austin Irabor 20:45

Yeah, so actually, within PI, it’s the, our program is focused on motor vehicle. So niching, like getting super niche was actually really important to understanding that market really well, to be able to get that result. Um, I’m sure if we got into med mal, we could probably do something similar. But I just kind of believe like, we should just keep digging until it’s so unicorn like that, it’s 100% unbelievable, but people are doing it. At that point, we become a chooser. And I want it to be like getting into Harvard, where if you get into a NetFly program it’s like, your ticket’s punched. But we do have a b2c side of business. So you know, our, our CTRs are really high. Our conversion rates are as high as 38%, on landing pages that we built for things like bankruptcy, divorce, immigration, stuff like that, and that stuff’s like kind of easy to be honest with you. But what we’ve built is, we’ve taken, we’ve leveraged some of the stuff in high level, and we’ve packaged a system for those b2c clients. Again, coaching is just missing in the industry, what makes a good lawyer doesn’t necessarily make a good business owner. So sometimes the thing that you’re asking for, which is more leads, doesn’t solve your problems, it amplifies them. So what we do is we go in, and we give you a base, we give you a structure to the point where all you got to do is do what we prescribe, you know, and you’re going to be more successful, you’re going to make a lot more money. So I’m just wrapping up a case study video where a client did $77,000, in the first 28 days, on the b2c side.

Seth Price 22:24

So, you had mentioned sort of early in the interview that you did something, but you don’t do that, do you find that certain techniques that you’re always having to evolve, stuff that may work for a year or two, you know, starts to see less of a return, you’re always trying to figure out how to push the envelope, or is it many techniques are tried and true.

Austin Irabor 22:45

No, absolutely, absolutely not. I take it, I look at this the same way that probably a software company would look at their business, we want to be better and more innovative than we were two quarters ago. So every quarter, we’re working on something new, some kind of integration, some kind of audience, I have what they call an r&d budget. So it’s very much like building software, building a car, where it’s like, we want it to be better, faster, stronger than it was before. So I talked a little bit about AI, we’re all in on AI, you know, in terms of servicing the client, I want 100% of client conversations to be listened to and analyzed by a robot. So that when we do have that smart script, which is also developed by that same AI, the AI can go in and create a new category of analytics that currently does not exist, right, which is, this is exactly what you say to this kind of person. And this is the rate at which an individual is adhering to that. And then here’s the leaderboard. If you have that, then you have basically, I wouldn’t say closed loop, but you’ve got full circle analytics and from a bird’s eye view as a, as an owner, you can say, Okay, this is what’s happening. That way, you’re not just doing I mean, you have a very, what’s the word, unique experience? Because you’re, you understand it from the client side, but you also understand it from a vendor side. What’s the most common thing that you hear your personal injury attorneys say about a lead source or a vendor? Which is, well, their leads are no good. Their leads don’t work. Right? It can, it could be something else. It could just be that the people on your frontline, those people that you’re paying the least to do the most important work, just don’t like the lead source. They don’t jive with it. It doesn’t fit their personality or whatever. But you need to understand whether or not they’re adhering to the right things to say and do. If they’re doing that then it should work. If they’re not doing that, then of course it’s not going to work. But if something, if somebody else is crushing it nearby and you’re not, then it ain’t the lead source. That’s actually the control. You’re the variable. And that’s what we want to like uncover.

Seth Price 24:57

That’s awesome, like I relate to a lot of this, I use my own law firm as a test kitchen for my r&d. You know, it’s sort of like a jazz musician who tries to, you know, small clubs, smokey club. And then if it works he takes it to Carnegie Hall. The things that sort of, two things that you said on AI that I’d love to wrap up with, one of which is, you made me think of something which I’m not sure that we’re doing. But we should be doing if we’re not, I couldn’t tell if you’re doing this, or if this is something I just took away, which is, the thing about AI is it can extract anything from anything. But imagine if you took only the cases that closed and edited what was there and trying to like, you know, I don’t, again, I’m not far enough along. But if you could somehow have AI AB test, this is ones that didn’t, these are the ones that did and start to fine tune what those differences are. That’d be pretty freakin cool.

Austin Irabor 25:52

That’s exactly it, that’s exactly where this is all going.

Seth Price 25:58

It’s not quite there yet. But I assume that the people like you and I just want to be there when it is ready for primetime. You get an extra 12 or 18 months out of it when that is possible, fully.

Austin Irabor 26:12

Well, I’ll say this, the way conversational analytics is always going to work, or most likely going to work for the foreseeable future, that it’s going to take audio, it’s going to transcribe it. And it’s going to analyze that transcription because that base layer of you know, coding and understanding is already there. So it’s going to listen, transcribe and analyze and that technology already exists. There are already AI companies that do that. That’s not I mean, strapping on some audio analysis and then strapping on a recording attorney transcribing it, and then prompting AI to say, okay, analyze this for for XYZ, that’s not like super difficult, you can do that today, trust me. But where I think everything is going, and where I think agencies are going to have the leg up, if they move on it early, is they’re going to have more data than the agencies that are waiting for somebody to push out some tool, some product, right? Because what we’re doing is we’re looking at our entire client roster now. And we’re saying, Okay, we’re looking at it like a league, who is the Michael Jordan of this league? What are they doing that’s different? Maybe they’re in, let’s just say they’re in North Carolina? What are they doing that’s different from all of these other people? Let’s draw that out. Let’s understand what’s going on in that conversation. And let’s build a smart script around that. Now let’s distribute that script. Let’s say they’re closing at a 35% rate, everybody else is closing at a 20% rate just for, to give good numbers. What are they, what is this person doing to add that other 15%, let’s pull that out, distill it. Distribute that across the client roster. Now, all of our clients are going from 20% to 25%.

Seth Price 27:53

What I love about the potential future of AI, and we don’t have it yet, is that like ChatGPT, cool, but you don’t really know what the source is. And if it’s something internal, like, hey, I want like an employee manual, and it’s a starting point, you fix it, who cares, you can plagiarize the hell out of it. But when the AI allows you a closed loop, where it’s your data that you’re putting in, because like, frankly, you’re doing stuff differently than everybody else, you wouldn’t want everybody else’s data in because you don’t care what they’re doing, you can learn from it, but for your stuff, the idea, like I see this with content, imagine when we get the point when I can get BluShark content in my own AI, so that we’re only using our universe to teach it. That to me, and again, there are elements of it that are out there. But that to me is what really excites me, because then, and you’re seeing it like legal research, you know, Westlaw and LexisNexis, there’s a third one, which just got acquired, Fast Case. And the reason it got acquired is somebody was rolling up a UK and a US group, and they wanted to have a closed loop database that they could use to pull information out of. And then if you’re able to say, Okay, I have this elite group of people, I don’t care what these other numbnuts are doing. But I know that these guys are answering the phone right, so that you’re not putting all this hamburger helper in, and that you’re taking real data that you want. To me that’s sort of like that’s the next level stuff that I just can’t wait for.

Austin Irabor 29:19

Oh, it’s already here, man. You can do that today.

Seth Price 29:22

You can, but most people don’t have it in practice. It’s there, but the implementation of it is not quite as intuitive compared to, I just get the impression that the ability to get some sets of data will get easier and easier. Right now, it’s pretty cutting edge. But that to me, will be the game changer, is when you can sort of pick what you want in rather than just saying this is a ChatGPT environment. I mean, I know it is there. This is not…

Austin Irabor 29:52

Yeah, this might be moving faster than you know. Because like right now you can take, I don’t know how much content you have or how much content your team is building for your clients, but you can literally create your own internal version of ChatGPT. ChatGPT is like the public version based on information on the internet up to 2021. What you can do literally right now with the same company, OpenAI, is run GPT 3.5, which is far more powerful than ChatGPT. You can literally load in the content that you guys have made. And then you can train it to write like you and then instead of like…

Seth Price 30:33

And that’s point, is we do not have that in implementation yet. But when that happens, sky’s the freakin limit.

Austin Irabor 30:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can play in that sandbox today, if you really want.

Seth Price 30:43

Right, I understand. There’s a difference between playing it and like, having it where it’s meaningful. It’s not that far away. It’s happening quick, you know, I feel like in a lot of ways that we’re at the taxi Uber moment, when like, I remember taking my first Lyft, and I’m like, it was in Seattle, like I called somebody before I got in. I’m getting in some guy’s car with a mustache on the front of it, like, really dubious. And the idea that like, you’re like thinking twice about it once it was sort of brought to market where I’m probably taking a cab once in the last two years. About by comparison, it’s just, very excited about what’s there. Exactly what you’re talking about is there. I just don’t, most of us don’t have that closed yet. But when that loop closes, I mean, again, it’s almost there. I mean, I can’t wait. Well, Austin, thank you so much. This has been great. And I will definitely have your information in our comments here and can’t wait for our next hopeful in person meet up somewhere in a nice, friendly climate.

Austin Irabor 31:50

Okay, absolutely, man. So, yeah. Thanks for having me, and I’ll see you soon… Alright, take care.

BluShark Digital 31:57

Thank you for tuning in to the SEO Insider with Seth Price. Be sure to check back next week for fresh insights into building your brand’s online presence. Episodes are available to stream directly on BluShark Digital’s website.